March 24, 2026
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Vibrant Spaces is back for Season 2! In this podcast we connect with the people and places doing big things to bring their cities and towns to life. Tune in weekly for new episodes and new insights!
We are back in Vancouver, BC, Canada for this episode where we sit down with our guests ClaIre Leaonard, to discuss her strategy to bring light back to the Downtown core through security, inclusivity and re-usable infrastructure.
SUBSCRIBE WHEREVER YOU LOVE TO LISTEN:
As the current Placemaking and Public Spaces Manager for Vancouver Downtown, Claire walks us through the strategies being used in the City to bring excitement and novelty to the community without constantly starting from scratch - from making anchor events that citizens can rely on annually, to investing in re-usable infrastructure. We dive into the aftermath of the devastating Lapu Lapu Day festival in 2025 and how it affected the city's approach to safety, as well as the strategies the City is using to bring joy into its (limited) public spaces.
This episode covers:
CONNECT WITH OUR HOSTS: Emily Craven | Tim Souza
ABOUT OUR GUEST
CLAIRE LEONARD - Manager, Placemaking and Public Services, Vancouver Downtown BIA - With a background in planning and public space programming, Claire leads the charge in transforming downtown into an inclusive, inviting, and people-first place. Her work spans tactical urbanism, activation planning, and deep community listening—with a focus on everyday belonging and joy.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:
[00:00:00]
Emily Craven: Welcome back to another episode of Vibrant Spaces. I am your co-host, Emily Craven, and over here on my right is Timothy Souza.
Tim Souza: Hello, I'm Tim Suza.
Emily Craven: The one and only, thank you so much for joining us for part two of our downtown van experience, with the beautiful Claire Leonard. We are staying in Vancouver this week.
Emily Craven: If last episode was a snapshot into how events are shaped in downtown, this one asks what now? So what happens when you try to build permanent vibrancy into place? That is used to temporary [00:01:00] excitement. Let's put it that way.
Tim Souza: You know, like a popup, like, something that happens on a Saturday.
Emily Craven: Yeah. You can't do just fingers all the time. Jazz fingers are temporary excitement.
Tim Souza: Temporary excitement. And then how do I keep jazzing my fingers, I think is the consistent question that we were asking last week. But I'm excited about, getting to speak to our Claire number two this weekend.
Tim Souza: I really am. Yeah. Mm-hmm. She's also from Ireland. Fun fact. Mm-hmm. So Claire number two coming in also from Ireland. She's from a little place called Belfast, which we'll chat a little bit more about later. But she brings something very unique, to this role because she worked in placemaking in, in Belfast, really a city shaped by the complexity and division of, of violence and reconciliation.
Tim Souza: This experience just really gives her something very unique to bring to a North American city, right, and specifically to Vancouver. And building a, [00:02:00] safer, space amongst its own, the tensions of a large city and of overseeing 90 city blocks as a part of, this downtown. Van business Improvement Association.
Tim Souza: So her experience is really taking and leading public space and strategy for this city, bringing everything that she's done abroad to her dreams of living in Vancouver and in Canada, to change the world wherever she sets with. So it's really exciting. Yeah,
Emily Craven: I love that. And, and I think that here, what I really loved about this episode is that it became very clear that,
Emily Craven: You know, even though they look after such a large area, like 90 city blocks is massive, but those 90 city blocks there aren't really any plazas, right? Like it lacks plazas or parks or obvious gathering spaces, which again, makes the consistent event things difficult. And so they are carving that space out, you know, [00:03:00] in, in terms of lane ways.
Emily Craven: And so I understand. The placemaking approach of activating laneways is not new. I'm from Australia. Melbourne has done it across many, many decades, but I think that here it's being used to, you know, create the space before you can activate it. Vancouver's in that very interesting place where it needs to create the spaces to then be able to do the activations, to then be able to build out those tentacles of networks that make downtown an invitation to bring people around, not just for events, but in multiple different stages of the year.
Tim Souza: Yeah. For grandma's birthday on Thursday. You know, we need a space for that. and in a city like Vancouver where homes are often small, those third spaces become very, very important. Mm-hmm. Right? In, in those downtown spaces.
Tim Souza: I think that one of the ways that this [00:04:00] episode's really interesting and I would ask the audience to pay attention to is how downtown Van and Claire speak about keeping consistency and like freshness as far as like what they, what they build, without breaking the bank. Sustain, Yeah. Right. I was gonna try to find another way to say that, but like the idea of like, how do you do new things?
Tim Souza: How do you do new things that draw that upon the culture of the city, which is wanting that novelty without. Within the bounds of sustainability and within the bounds of like giving somebody people something they can expect. So the reason people love to go to events is 'cause they know what kind of energy to bring to the event.
Tim Souza: How, you know, depending on if it's an afternoon event or a morning event, how they are gonna show up in that space. And so that consistency's just as important as that novelty. And I think that I would encourage everybody to listen very specifically to, how Vancouver's achieving that as well in [00:05:00] this episode.
Emily Craven: Mm-hmm. And the different ways you can make something feel new. Without it necessarily being new. Because as much as we love newness, we also love as humans consistency. Yep. Right? And, and I think it's a long game approach, right? It's connecting those blocks. It's the beginning of a long journey.
Emily Craven: Claire is thinking beyond individual sites, towards how do you connect those larger swaths of downtown to thread joy and safety across an entire 90 block footprint. And I'm really optimistic about what Downtown Van's doing?
Emily Craven: So without further ado, welcome Claire Leonard.
Tim Souza: Hello everyone, and we are so excited to have Claire with us today. Claire, thank you so much for, taking time out of your busy schedule. Running the [00:06:00] largest BIA in Western North America, Canada.
Claire Leonard: I'm, I'm happy for both of those, right. Our, yeah. I'll take it.
Tim Souza: Yeah. Largest, largest Western BIA. It's so cool.
Tim Souza: I think you are a super cool person too. And so I think the two that you get to run this cool thing and be cool is awesome and I'd love to help the audience get to know you a little bit more. So I think one of the things that you shared with us was that you have moved from Northern Ireland to Vancouver and specifically downtown Vancouver.
Tim Souza: And so I'm sure that's a wild experience. And can you, so can you tell us the differences between Northern Ireland and Vancouver? But also caveat that your other Claire that's on the same episode is from Southern Ireland and those are two different places as well. So like. Yeah. So I want to just turn it over to you.
Tim Souza: Tell us about the Irish world, Vancouver world and that transition and what your life has been like.
Claire Leonard: Of [00:07:00] course. First and foremost, thank you, Tim. Thank you Em, for inviting me on. I know you've had a previous discussion with other Claire. You can't write this stuff. I swear to God. We have this sort of.
Claire Leonard: Mythology buried in our DNA, where we have two Irish clairs that are working for one downtown, van BAA. But no, fantastic question and I think it's a really good jumping off point. Northern Ireland is often described as a post-conflict society. There's two very strongly rooted political ethno national identities that are protected by governments.
Claire Leonard: And I think, what one community has. So two as the other. So if West Belfast has a community center, east Belfast will naturally have a community center of the exact same, if not slightly more value. But what's interesting to me is that Northern Ireland has already had a long history of different diaspora, you know, Indian and Chinese communities who've been in Northern Ireland since the twenties and thirties.
Claire Leonard: And that really interested me and I went back [00:08:00] and, and did a master's at Ulster University. And my focus at the time was on cultural assimilation in a post-conflict society. And I think I was exploring what it meant to be the less serviced other amidst the, the space that just really dominated by two very strong ethno national identities.
Claire Leonard: And that was always really just. Part of my upbringing growing up, it was quite a divided society. And even though we describe it as post-conflict, as we know, there's never really a truly post-conflict society in any culture. There's always, you know, the, the victory being written by the, the winner supposedly.
Claire Leonard: What was really fascinating is having moved. The 4,389 miles Exactly between Belfast to Vancouver. I did have to Google it. I've been saying 5,000 miles for a while, but that is a little bit of an upgrade. But in contrast, since arriving in Vancouver, it's been very interesting. Just identifying [00:09:00] how diverse Vancouver is and there is significantly more, suburban community identity, I think to celebrate one's old culture as in contrast to what I, I grew up in, and potentially not feeling that forced sense of assimilation.
Claire Leonard: In my research I identified that for instance. The Filipino community in Northern Ireland predominantly would identify as Catholics, so they would sometimes be embraced and assimilated into, perhaps more nationalist celebrations of culture. Whereas what's really interesting about Vancouver is there seems to be space for everybody to separately, celebrate their own identity.
Claire Leonard: Like I was going through the events calendar for not even downtown van, but abroad that we've got, you know, Italian Day on the drive. We've got Greek Day Celtic Fest. Obviously, I'd be remiss if I didn't shout out the Irish Diaspora, African Descent Festival. So many different cultural events have space to independently celebrate themselves.
Claire Leonard: And I will [00:10:00] also add. It has been a very humbling experience, being educated and doing my own research into the indigenous peoples of Vancouver as well that sprang from this land before European colonization. So there has been a conscious effort from government to, to bring people towards truth and reconciliation, and downtown van.
Claire Leonard: Build that into your process as well too. So again, very, very different cities, very far apart, and only three years in from my experience. So I still have a lot of learning. To do and a lot of research to do, but just, that was one of the most striking things that I felt, almost immediately upon moving to BC from the north of Ireland.
Emily Craven: Wow, that's, such a wonderful lens to come in from for, placemaking, right? Because placemaking is ultimately about the people who make up that place and the cultures that are there. And so to have that kind of very [00:11:00] interesting, area of placemaking in, areas that have had conflict before, like that, it must give you an amazing tool set that we-
Emily Craven: We don't normally come across as part of, the conversations that we have here. And I suppose I'm really, this makes me really curious as to what is the biggest change that you've seen since you've moved to Vancouver and now that you are, as you say, Claire 2.0 on the placemaking team. Like what's that, the biggest change that you've seen in those few years that you've been here?
Claire Leonard: This was a really great question, and I did have to ponder it because. There has been. So, I mean, it's my own perception of change as well too, right? Because I'm sure there's been things that I have not been aware of given the fact that, you know, I've been living in Vancouver since January of 2022 and my perception of the city has almost entirely been shaped post COVID, right?
Claire Leonard: So I actually visited here with a really dear friend in 2019, which partially in mostly inspired my [00:12:00] thought of, okay, there's something more to be explored here. I wanna come back. But then a little, a little old thing called COVID, we might have heard of it, has affected, you know, the timeline of that.
Claire Leonard: And I was quarantined for the first one or two weeks that I did arrive in BC and I think after my quarantine period ended, I was so. Full of adrenaline and, expectation that I was really exploring the city with the eyes of a tourist who hadn't quite realized that I'd made that 5,000 mile journey to completely relocate my life.
Claire Leonard: And so I think that gave me a bit of a skewed perception of. This is the most perfect city on earth. It is the absolute, you know, like canvases that I'm gonna have for my placemaking, which is, you know, looking at the factors of sociability uses and activities, access and linkages, comfort and image, like all that stuff was really front and center in my mind.
Claire Leonard: But what was really interesting is when I actually got into the, you know, [00:13:00] brass tacks of Community, like how do we even answer that question? When I actually began to be employed in the place making world, how do we define what community is within a boundary as large as downtown Van? And I know we'll speak a little bit more about the actual space that I-
Claire Leonard: Carry out placemaking work in, but we are built from very, very different industries and areas, whether that's the financial district that our offices are based in here, the mom and pop shops that lead towards our neighboring, gas time, BAA or even the nighttime business economy of the Grandville Entertainment District.
Claire Leonard: There isn't really one homogenous community that can be. Defined, and that is a challenge, but also really thrilling and exciting. In the same, in the same breath. And I think that's been my biggest shift in perception of how very diverse Vancouver is, and not even just downtown Van Vancouver, but our BIA Metro Vancouver.
Claire Leonard: It [00:14:00] is really a sum of so many different parts and there isn't really one way to program or, or, or create placemaking for just one community. That's a big sort of perception shift for me, having come from a space where we had to make sure there was 50% x programming, 50% y programming, and maybe pepper, a little bit of diaspora there as well too.
Claire Leonard: But it has been a really educational experience and it doesn't stop right every day as a school day, as they say.
Tim Souza: I love that. And it sounds like you, what you've really done is not an Irish analogy whatsoever. Pizza. The idea of like,
Claire Leonard: Oh, the famous Irish pizza.
Tim Souza: Yeah, the famous Irish pizza.
Tim Souza: You've, used that to cut in half, you've put all these toppings on it. And found ways to slice it.
Claire Leonard: It's fantastic, well, you know, I, I, it's my fault for mentioning Italian Day in the Dry 'cause I think I planted that food.
Tim Souza: I’m trying to come up with a potato analogy or something. [00:15:00] Oil versus chips. Yep. There you go. Your chips are now way more, spicy.
Tim Souza: Oh yeah. Yeah. Truly. Yeah. And so with the adding those flavors, I would really love to talk about how you do it and what you've been doing. 'cause I know for sure, like in some of our other conversations you mentioned that you,, that like placemaking in, as you were just kind of saying in, in Ireland it didn't go underneath that term even.
Tim Souza: And so now coming in, building the place, making structures, putting the systems in place, and you know, downtown. Vancouver being, it's like, I know it's like 90 city blocks. I'd love for you to kind of tell us about the details of what's the scale and scope of downtown Vancouver that makes it so unique.
Tim Souza: You started to talk about the peppering and the different cultural pieces. Can you give us some stats on like. I mean from Belfast to Vancouver, like I'm sure that there's numbers are slightly different. Can you give us some Vancouver numbers so that everybody can understand the kind of community that you're working with on like a, for sure.
Claire Leonard: Yeah. [00:16:00] and I think before we even dive into that, I think you raise a really interesting point about sort of the way I also look at placemaking is some of my most exceptional colleagues are very right brain and left brain. And I think to be a successful place maker in a modern metropolis, you have to, you have to lean into the analytics and the stats and all that information as much as you wanna lean into, the joy of a certain.
Claire Leonard: Programming series that benefits the community site and the, the biggest challenge, but also opportunity of a business improvement association as large as we are mm-hmm. Is the sheer scale and the scope. Right. So when I actually, I worked for a, in the states and also I think further afield. Business improvement associations can be referred to as bids.
Claire Leonard: Right. So I, I've, I grew up in a, in a bid,
Claire Leonard: and I was working for Cathedral Quarter bid at the time, and it, you know, I think it encompassed, maybe I don't wanna misquote, but it was significantly smaller than the 90 [00:17:00] block radius that we have here in downtown Van. So every BIA will be of, of different scale and scope and even our neighbors in West End and Gastown.
Claire Leonard: We often, you know, we're very, very aware that we are extremely well resourced, in terms of, finances and in staff, in contrast to many, many other business improvement associations across Canada. So those stats 90 block? Yeah, the 90 block radius. for those who visited Vancouver, kind of stretching from where the cruise ships, arrive around the sea wall coal harbor, right down to the Granville Bridge.
Claire Leonard: And we serve about. 8,000 plus members. Not every single member is actively engaged, but they're still part of our membership. Meaning they would receive all our email blasts and they would be included in any of our invites to attend, say, networking things. And I think what's interesting is about sort of setting the context here. We're so well resourced as a business improvement association that we've got four [00:18:00] different departments.
Claire Leonard: Those are placemaking. In my department, I manage a team of four. And I'm hyper aware that often many entire BIAs don't even have four staff. So again, that is a challenge, but an opportunity. At the same time, we also have an economic development department. We have a community safety department, and then we have of course, mark comms because there's so much noise in chatter out there that if we didn't have a really strong marketing department, it'd be very difficult to differentiate what we do from say even paid activities.
Claire Leonard: So within that we have, a lot of, I guess, freedom. We are funded by business levies, and with that we have a lot of budget, right? So like, I think in contrast to maybe some other, nonprofit organizations. We have a lot of money to do a lot of stuff.
Tim Souza: Can I interrupt and I know that kind of
Tim Souza: You, you know, listeners are probably curious, you say a lot of money. What,, what can you tell us about [00:19:00] the amounts of money like that you guys do like generate? 'cause it's 90 blocks a lot of businesses.
Claire Leonard: Yeah.
Tim Souza: You're saying you, you're well resourced, you have more staff than other people. So like,
Claire Leonard: yeah.
Tim Souza: Is there any like, you know, ballpark, like, Hey, we use this amount of. Even if you can't give us the money, can you tell us what you like the number of programs you fund with it so we can give it for sure.
Claire Leonard: Yeah, of course. Yeah, I think that's a good way, a good way of phrasing it. It's interesting actually because kind of, I, wear some, I mean more than two hats because we, we know as placemakers we do, we do an awful lot rather than just outdoor programming.
Claire Leonard: Right. but there is a sponsorship committee that I sit on, so independent of placemaking, there is a sponsorship committee and we have a fund of 300,000 Canadian dollars, which would support in the region of say, 50 independent events. So that issap. Or sort of siloed from the work that I do within the placemaking department, but that would kind of give you an indication that we are well-resourced enough that we have that amount that we can set aside as an independent budget to [00:20:00] fund events and festivals in their entirety as long as they're free, open to the public, inclusive, and happen in the downtown-
Claire Leonard: Van Business Improvement Area. We have a very open policy where we can fund those independent festivals. Separate to that is a placemaking budget. Essentially whatever money we get in from those businesses throughout the. The pre that fiscal, the organization is able to carve out accordingly to need.
Claire Leonard: So within those four departments, the community safety budget would be, and we can get into that in a little bit, the community safety budget would be the best funded, because of the cost of, you know, trying to keep our. Our streets clean and safe and, and offering, you know, like the, safety ambassador and the clean team programs that I can expand on a little bit as well.
Claire Leonard: Placemaking is actually a close second given the fact that our remit is so large and we have, we probably run about 185 events. [00:21:00] With that budget. I will say talking of scale and scope, you know, for every popup. One of my favorites actually, we had a dog therapy Thursday event a couple of weeks ago, so that would be in the region of maybe 10 K to run.
Claire Leonard: So for every one of those, we have something as huge in scale as Granville block party. Which is my largest event in my, event calendar, and that's in a region of about 300,000 Canadian dollars to run for a two day event. It's August 23rd and 24th, if any of your listeners are going to be in Vancouver this summer.
Claire Leonard: A little shout out there for my, my Biggest baby, my. Not even terrible twos. I think my biggest baby is six years old now, so that's not even a toddler. So yes, Grandville block party is, is the big, the big focus for me. So that can kind of give you an indication as to the actual scale.
Tim Souza: Yeah. Thank you for that.
Tim Souza: Yeah, I know that. 'cause sometimes people are like, great. That's what is a lot, especially in these days when numbers get thrown out [00:22:00] as if, you know, they're, most of them are made up to know that. Like, hey, here are some tangible pieces. So thank you so much. Anything else you'd like to share about that downtown Vancouver dynamic that we're about to have this conversation in?
Tim Souza: Because I want to make sure, we jump back on track there?
Claire Leonard: Oh, for sure. Yeah. I think what's also really important to mention is that, we do publish a report called the State of Downtown. Shout out to my colleague Sean Bailey, who puts a lot of energy and effort from the economic development team.
Claire Leonard: And that is a really, it's a, it's completely easy to access. You just go on our website and I'm sure we can link people into that in the future, but that's a really, really sleek, sophisticated, well designed, but. Critically, interesting factual report on the metrics and stats of what it is to be part of downtown.
Claire Leonard: And I think just some super quick stats. There's about 130,000 people that are working in the downtown core. About 140,000 are residents. The median age is about 38, and I [00:23:00] think the median income is around 81,000 Canadian dollars. So there's obviously like. A relatively young population with some disposable income, but we are also the most densely populated city in Canada.
Claire Leonard: And the, the stat that I pulled this morning, which kind of beggars belief, but we had 106 million visits to downtime.
Claire Leonard: In 2024. So. I think, yes, there's a core residential population, but there's also an absolutely astronomically huge visitor population that comes in through cruise ships and through air travel as well too.
Claire Leonard: So that's always an interesting point, like how do you build community when there's a transient young community that move for work as well as a transient visitor community that come for maybe a long weekend or up to 10 days and then, and then go on. So. Again, more fun, creative challenges for me and my team to explore.
Tim Souza: I, and I love that. So with that and being one of the most densely populated [00:24:00] environments, I know that in some of our prior conversations you're kind of limited with green space or flat space or programmable space, both for yourselves and then for the community to program in. Can you tell us how you are addressing, you know, that challenge and then we can get into some other challenges.
Tim Souza: But that one kind of specifically that is. It's almost like a benefit and, and a negative at the same time where like, yes, you have so many people who live downtown versus cities like Dallas that are struggling with like 15,000 people downtown versus you, you're like 10 x that or a hundred x that.
Tim Souza: Right? So like with, with the amount of people coming into your city, consistently, and so, what are you doing for the space? The people get a plane that's not like their house or their business.
Claire Leonard: That's true. And I think, you know, I'm sure many of your colleagues or anyone who listens, who works in place making, who is in quite a built up environment will relate to this struggle.
Claire Leonard: But one of my, bigger pet peeves is the lack of green space [00:25:00] or the lack of flat space. Given the fact that we are as huge in scope as, as we are, we only have two parks within that area. And again, it's highly competitive whenever, even as a business improvement association, we don't get first dibs, you know, and that's good.
Claire Leonard: It's good because if you want obviously democratizing of space and you want as many people to be able to apply through our, our city to, to have a permit to do their own event and or to parks and do their own event via the parks board. The big challenge that we actually identified years ago, way before my time even.
Claire Leonard: Moving to Vancouver and definitely before my time of knowing what placemaking was as a theoretical concept is, how do we create space outta nothing? And, we do have the benefit, I guess, as I mentioned, like plazas. There's a couple more plazas that are parks, but not everyone always wants to throw an event in a plaza.
Claire Leonard: There's something about like. The textural [00:26:00] soft setting of also being able to do things in a park. And I think they're maybe a little bit more family friendly. And forgiving on infrastructure as well too. So we've actually, as of, I believe it was as early as 2016, the placemaking department, which has existed for a very long time, but is not, you know, as evolved as it is, has, become to had identified,
Claire Leonard: That there are a lot of laneways in downtown Vancouver, as is the case I'm sure with a lot of different, metropolitan spaces. But we had identified that the way that we could potentially begin to explore this is through gradual laneway transformation. I think we'd identified through our partner HCMA and architecture firm, there were 240 laneways within the greater expanse of the downtown core.
Claire Leonard: And that's a lot of real estate that was being not. Maybe I hit sent underutilized because [00:27:00] those laneways are always designed originally for the purpose of deliveries and for municipal services, but that might be only a couple of hours out of an entire 24 hour window. So we developed what we have called the Awesome Ali strategy.
Claire Leonard: We published it this year, which is a five-year strategy to 2029 that we really redevelop, and transform some of those spaces. So we're on our fourth transformation this year. The first in 2016 was called Ali Oop. If you Google it, it's also colloquially called the Pink Alley. And I'm really proud that often when you do your search engine optimization type thing with Google or Bing or whatever service you provide, AI will pop up as one of the first hits of like, place making in Vancouver.
Claire Leonard: So it's really costly to maintain and run those spaces. But the idea is you're basically creating cleaner, safer, brighter, lighter space where not only us as a BIA can program and activate, but we [00:28:00] would encourage. Anyone to do that. All that really requires is a little bit of, like forward planning and a permit.
Claire Leonard: So we're, we're basically just trying to create a network of interconnected spaces where people can, can do their own events. We had an event there two weeks ago in partnership with a great crowd called Dinner Society. So I would encourage anybody listening to look up our, Vancouver's awesome alley strategy.
Claire Leonard: It's quite a comprehensive document. It's a considerable piece of work. I'm working on a transformation right now, but I find that the project management of that, to me is just so fascinating because it will benefit not only us as a BIA, but the community downtown indefinitely moving forward.
Tim Souza: Are you saying that I could like throw a birthday party for my grandma and bring back my,
Claire Leonard: You absolutely could as long as you make sure that you got your traffic management in place. 'cause we don't want grandma getting run over Tim. So yeah, we would just make sure. It would be as simple as, you know, [00:29:00] pursuing a permit with the city and then you can, shut that down.
Claire Leonard: So that's the hope. You know, there's only there we've had four. We want to commit to nine. There's been four that have been transformed. Ali, Oop, Snook Lane, RIS, and my. Actually the plan is, incidentally, the plan is behind me on the wall. I did not plan this, but there it is, to over my shoulder. DLI Dali Alley is what we're calling our, our most, our most current transformation.
Claire Leonard: So I'm really in the thick of that at the moment. Working with painting contractors, working with, all our infrastructure. I had to do a Leach ability report last week, which is lead paint testing. So I actually love how. Involved. I am in the process of that. It's, to me, it's the real, like roll your sleeves up and get down to the work that I, that I always wanted to do when I was involved in place making.
Claire Leonard: But increasingly, depending on how high you up or the food chain, there's maybe less chance for you to do that. So wherever's an opportunity, just physically do something. The first to, to put my hand up [00:30:00] and wanna do it.
Emily Craven: It makes sense to me that. That you would go with a laneway strategy for this, right?
Emily Craven: Because I understand that laneway strategies are not new. I know that a lot of people here are probably their own laneway strategies and, and all of those sorts of things. But it makes a ton of sense, particularly when we look at the fact that in Canada it's a very car-heavy and car-centric country.
Emily Craven: Just from weather alone and, and public transport and dealing with that weather. And so what are your safer places that you can convert into public spaces if the plazas have not been built? I know that there are policies and legislations now that make sure that like things like plazas are incorporated within development and, and all of that sort of,
Emily Craven: More public realm related stuff, but you have to deal with the legacy buildings that are in your city, where the city is x number of, you know, decades old. And so a lane way strategy makes sense [00:31:00] because it is the areas of the city that you cannot remove the car alliance. But you can find safer spaces.
Emily Craven: Those alleyways see less traffic, therefore they can be more easily shut down than a street. And so the more public realms and public spaces in different areas of the downtown blocks that you have, the, the more, choice you have for doing your programming, for getting people out, all of those sorts of things.
Emily Craven: And so I am really. I'm interested in how you are now planning to layer your placemaking goals across these kinds of multi disciplines. So obviously building the laneways as you're going, you're in the thick of things, getting paint done, all of those sorts of things. How are you now layering the different placemaking that you're doing over these spaces that you are creating to augment the small parks or plazas that you have currently?
Claire Leonard: Right. I think this is another great question. My view of placemaking has been tailored, obviously [00:32:00] specifically to the eccentricities, I'll say of Vancouver. And similarly, like you mentioned, Dallas, they're depending on the city, like it's another really valid point that this is a very young city.
Claire Leonard: Vancouver is about a hundred years old. I grew up in Ireland, you know, like I am, I'm used to a totally different, ancient country that has had, you know, eons of development over, over seemingly millennia. I know that's the case again, that there's obviously always been, coast Salish people in British Columbia, but the idea that we've only really had this sort of like springing up of like mega development over the last 100 years has meant that there has been-
Claire Leonard: There hasn't been as many say, medieval spaces for gathering or what have you. That's always been developed to be a residential modern city. I think the great question that you asked there, and [00:33:00] alluding to the beginning of my sentence, 'cause I do have a scatter gun approach sometimes to answering these questions as I form my thoughts.
Claire Leonard: I look at placemaking as four pillars. We've got our activations, which is, you know, your boots on the ground, programming your beautification, which is increasingly a larger part of our budget where we look at the way of finding, we look at, greenery and planters and just making spaces look cleaner and brighter.
Claire Leonard: We look at the strategic, planning, which would be, you know, I've got, in addition to my awesome alley strategy, I'm also really proud to have published a public art strategy recently where we're looking at how do we envision envision, public art being really critical to that secret ingredient that maybe Vancouver sometimes is lacking in the fact that it's a beautiful city, but the way finding and the public art.
Claire Leonard: Van will continue to be improved as time goes on,
Emily Craven: But, that's something that's very unique to you as
Claire Leonard: Well. It's, yeah. [00:34:00] Very much so. And maybe, you know, like people have, and I wouldn't be one of those people, but I can understand the criticism of, occasionally. Certain people referring to Vancouver as being, you know, a beautiful woman or man with no personality.
Claire Leonard: And the idea that it is a beautiful vista, but because we are a young city, you know, we maybe haven't invested in much as in the spaces that maybe people can congregate. And, build community together. So, the maintenance, the fourth pillar I should say, of being the maintenance pillar of that, foundation of placemaking.
Claire Leonard: And that is increasingly expensive as well too. But I think what's really fascinating is because it is, there's a lot of space. Yes, there's small plazas. Yes, there's small, smaller parks. Now we've got the laneways. There's also our relationship with our property developers. Development is a reality of living in Vancouver, not [00:35:00] even just downtown, but into the suburbs and into the area.
Claire Leonard: Where I live in South Granville. We have the benefit of really strong relationships with little to no bureaucracy with some of these property, managers and property developers where they will have their own private, like their private plazas and their private parks where we've had fantastic events and we don't have to jump through the same level of, you know, red tape in order to, to host those events.
Claire Leonard: So I think I look at it almost like a heat map of. And a kind of an index as to what we're doing where in scale and scope. So it could be something which is popup in lot 19, like I mentioned, that Dog Day. Or we've got a fantastic series coming up, a like a music series where we have music every night, every day, I should say in, in, in lot 19 over the lunch hour.
Claire Leonard: But increasingly like, you know, then something huge in scope where I shut down Granville Street to run, Granville Block Party as well too. [00:36:00] So there is. There's a lot of different scale and scope to do an awful lot, but I also think in certain things as well, scope creep can threaten to happen and that's what I don't want because we actually cannot put an event on in every single 90 block, in the entire BIA, area.
Claire Leonard: We do have to really think very carefully about what we are doing, what's legacy, what's a popup, and as I mentioned that maintenance piece. With say, damage, things going walkies, things like that. You know, we have to consider the fact that there has to be an increasing amount of maintenance. That is the reality of placemaking in a space like Vancouver, which has its own, you know, socioeconomic challenges as well too.
Claire Leonard: So. It's a really good question. And I don't wanna take up the entire interview talking about it. I could probably answer that in an entire podcast. But we do our best to kind of look at scale and scope and also not forgetting that we have to factor in a big contingency [00:37:00] for the maintenance of events and beautification as well as, you know, those strategic plans as well.
Tim Souza: Yeah, that's. You have a lot to hold in your head, my friend. Those are a lot of different spaces, a lot of different ways to think about not only just programming, activating, allowing for actual commerce to happen so you can continue to fund that budget allows you to do the things. I can see where to take a full look at, okay, great.
Tim Souza: What is both public and private? How do we activate on these pieces? How do we invite the public into this space? Make it feel vibrant for those who live there. And who is visiting. But also recognizing limitations and challenges that the city of Vancouver has, namely, we've talked about that.
Tim Souza: That, the, the open space, to be able to do that kind of activities. But they're, you know, Vancouver has a couple other challenges and I think that your team is doing such a great job in addressing them, that I'd love to just name them quickly and talk about Yeah, of course. What you guys, how you're incorporating that [00:38:00] because you are a new city.
Tim Souza: You don't have the space for, like you just said, you're not as old Belfast.
Tim Souza: So like there's definitely a difference like even the communal spaces and things that the city has to address or the BB has to address that the community hasn't had the resiliency built within itself over a few thousand years to address itself.
Tim Souza: And so right, right. With that, I just kind of would love to start here and be like, can you. How are your team addressing that safety inclusivity, especially after the most recent tragedy that happened in downtown Vancouver? And I wanna just open the, that kind of up to you to, to answer. Yeah.
Claire Leonard: Yeah. Thanks Tim. And I think, you know, as you say, like to name it, we were all absolutely. Devastated with the tragedy that happened on the 28th of April. It just so happened to coincide with the Lapu Lapu Festival. I hate associating Lapu Lapu with that tragedy, but I don't name [00:39:00] it like that.
Claire Leonard: I name it the 28th of April, because I think any event manager will know that they really don't deserve for a festival to be associated with something as, deeply distressing as that. And I think that is also a really stark reminder of that. Placemaking is a discipline. It is, a field that is in its infancy in terms of like the research, and the, the lack of information maybe, or the, the, the growing body of information of research as to how critical it is not only for social cohesion, but now we're on the other side of it.
Claire Leonard: We're, we're experiencing, whenever you. Guide people to use and celebrate in a public space. Your duty of care also extends to that community as well too. And I think I have always been a risk assessor. I come from an advanced management background. I also think the reality of being Northern Irish is that I've always, anyone you [00:40:00] know from, from a postle society or, or maybe specifically Northern Ireland, has that.
Claire Leonard: Their amygdala often firing, like we're hyper alert to threats and challenges, and that's just maybe unfortunately or fortunately, part of our DNA, so whenever this occurred
Claire Leonard: The immediate thought is, obviously like compassion for, for the community that was impacted because it is truly, every event monitor's worst nightmare from my perspective.
Claire Leonard: Fortunately, because of the resources that we have as a business improvement association, Granville block Party has always been as water tight as you can imagine we have because it is a full road closure, we do put, a lot of infrastructure in place in order to mitigate any attempts, of any kind of like attacks.
Claire Leonard: There are other events in our portfolio that have really given us pause to kind of sit down as a group and really [00:41:00] come together. And, and I think for a lot of us to realize that, it's more than just, you know, a fun pop-up event. It is where we're creating this space where safety is top of mind and it's always top of mind for me.
Claire Leonard: I will sacrifice programming costs in order to put more security and, and more preventative measures in. But the question, the philosophical question has also been raised about. Not wanting to build a fortress. And if you think about like the definition of placemaking being like encouraging people to come together in a, in a space and.
Claire Leonard: Like I mentioned before, like the idea of the comfort and image of that space mm-hmm. Within making, that's gonna be really, really critical, I think to all people working in public space moving forward. And not just specific to, to Vancouver, right? Like there's been unfortunately incidences across the world where,
Claire Leonard: We're where these sort of terrible tragedies have happened. So I feel like we have to have our wits about us, but we also can't let fear win. And I know I say this from the really [00:42:00] privileged standpoint of somebody that has the resources to put towards protecting people in those environments, but mm-hmm.
Claire Leonard: BIAs in downtown and, and sorry, I should say BIAs in Vancouver and in Canada have come together and will come together to kinda discuss how, how we have a new, a new approach and a new template moving forward because the nature of space was changing anyway, I think.
Claire Leonard: You just, economic factors and this just so happens to be like a really ugly, horrible way that it reared its head.
Claire Leonard: We owe it to our community and the public to create as safe a space as possible in environments where often this, the safe space is not guaranteed.
Tim Souza: So right. Yeah. I love that you guys are approaching it from a balancing accessibility, openness and security. Like you're really looking at that trifecta and mm-hmm.
Tim Souza: Saying Great in this space. And I think it kind of goes beyond, tragic events, right? In that space. It also is just the everyday [00:43:00] things that downtown Vancouver is facing from, you know, homelessness to addiction, to mental health challenges in, in the population. Yeah. is there, are, are all of those also being kind of addressed in that same.
Tim Souza: Within that same triangle?
Claire Leonard: I'm thinking maybe we have a, some sort of like other shape for that as well too, right? Because it's even more than a trifecta where I'm like, I don't know, an octagon or whatever. But the idea is that, and again, it was a real eye-opener for me when I first moved to Vancouver as well too, because every, every city will have their own kind of like-
Claire Leonard: Particular ratio or formula of how those socioeconomic issues are visible. And we are extremely fortunate in downtown van BIA, that we have a very well staffed and resourced community safety department where the organization, has placed a lot of energy and effort into. A [00:44:00] safety ambassador team that patrols the, the entire 90 blocks redirecting to resources like we deescalate where we can, the clean team, which looks after the, the sanitation and cleanliness of that space as well.
Claire Leonard: But the reality is, you know, it's, we are in unprecedented times and I think this is something that's affected not only Vancouver, but across the world and particularly, thinking of West coast, North America. Because of the favorable climates as well too. And again, this is completely outta my wheelhouse, but it's also helped us as placemakers really just practically think about what are we doing, who are we doing it for?
Claire Leonard: And rather than lament and like wring our hands about, oh, we can't have nice things and I don't agree with that. I feel like it actually just strengthens a resolve to just be creative and do. Do place making a little differently. So to give you an example, I am a big fan of greenery. I want as much greenery [00:45:00] as possible, but often, you know, a stunning, planter on gravel street, it may not look the same in two weeks after I put it in, say, you know, in the middle of the summer.
Claire Leonard: That is just the reality of, you know, doing things in a public space. So our way of mitigating that is hanging baskets. So we just have the same gorgeous greenery, but. Higher up. So it's kind of the human inter interaction of it will be less. And that also goes for, our mural art. We do, you know, like anti graffiti coatings on all of our murals.
Claire Leonard: And we just, we look at it through the lens of assume that if it's going to be interacted with, as we say it will be, and just then just putting the mitigation efforts in, which is made for some like. Really fun exploration with light as well. Like lighting, again, can increase the perception of safety.
Claire Leonard: I know we wanted to talk about canopy at some other point. I know.
Tim Souza: Let's jump in.
Claire Leonard: Yeah, absolutely.
Tim Souza: Yeah. Some fun stuff with lighting and it's great to know that it, it, it's coming out of as well, this, this understanding of safety and place and, yeah. Interactability as you've labeled it.
Tim Souza: I love that so much. Yeah. And Em you wanted to chat about the lighting solutions in Vancouver. I think, I'm gonna just toss it to you, Claire.
Emily Craven: Yeah. And I, it's, it's interesting to, to hear all those considerations that go into that as well, because that's obviously necessary as part of.
Emily Craven: As we've said, your safety, your inclusivity, all of those, components that we want to really do effective placemaking. But at the same time, those kinds of considerations are what actually make great placemaking, right? Because you can't just go in there and events be your only thing. Right. Or making a parklet be your only thing.
Emily Craven: Right. Those, those kind of considerations have to go into everything from like, [00:47:00] how can we make something temporary and, and, and safe or something that is temporary because of the, the nature of an area so that we can have these wonderful things and we can keep track of them, like having things that are much more longer term and like the mitigations that go as part of that.
Emily Craven: Yeah. And so what I'm curious about is, how do you balance those? One-offs. Taylor Swift came to Vancouver, this, last, you know, 12 months. And so you've had activations that were a part of those, kind of like one-off events to activations that are much more long running, like your lights display across, Christmas and, and all of the things that go into making something feel safer, making something, feel-
Emily Craven: Permanent plus temporary. It's, it's really that balance of like, newness, right? Mm-hmm. And, like many people, I think Vancouver is kind of one of those simple places where newness is a thing, really, [00:48:00] drives people's want to visit a place. And so how do you balance those long-term versus short-term activations, those permanent versus, maybe semi-permanent, and to mix.
Emily Craven: In a way that is sustainable and doesn't mean that you have to spend a hundred thousand dollars every time you wanna do a new thing to true meet, need to be new, to meet that need, to be, you know, you just tend to come with people wanting to share photographs of themselves doing the new thing. Mm-hmm.
Emily Craven: What does that way that you build that sustainability in a way supports you, supports you from year to year beyond just running events.
Claire Leonard: Yeah. And I think that is again, a question that we all ask ourselves as placemakers, right? Like, we want to bring, we wanna bring people to our city hubs. We wanna bring, and particularly in Vancouver, that sort of obsession with, with the newness or the new thing is, often.
Claire Leonard: You know, the reality [00:49:00] of what maybe drives a lot of people to visit somewhere like Ali Oop, where if you put that into Instagram with the hashtag, you will, you know, someone who will have taken a photo of it today, say, and that's kind of like a self perpetuating machine of, encouraging people to visit.
Claire Leonard: And I think the question for me, always. Who are we really serving? Is it just tourists? Is it just residents? Is it just, our members? Is it all of the above? And it's, it is all of the above. So there is kind of like a formula that we've been tweaking over the years, which is from our work plan. We've, we've got those 185 events, right?
Claire Leonard: But that will change, that will slightly fluctuate year on year, depending on what level of newness we wanna bring in. Newness being, you know, top of mind next summer for fifa. I might add. So like for my budget I'll siphon a little bit away on silo in anticipation of doing something SPECT and new. But I'm also a big believer in like, if it ain't broke, there's [00:50:00] no need to fix it.
Claire Leonard: Granville block party has slightly been tweaked over the years, but it still attracts 40,000 people to the downtown core. Our beloved summer movie nights every Thursday in the North Plaza by the art gallery, and that's been running for a number of years as well to everything that we do. I should also caveat is free to the public as well.
Claire Leonard: There's never any, any charge to be involved, and it's fully inclusive and accessible. So with accessibility and inclusivity, first of mind. The budgets then carved up, you know, X percent towards my activations, X percent towards my beautification. Increasingly more and more towards my maintenance, but always looking to think, okay, how am I gonna be able to utilize this in the future?
Claire Leonard: So, I'm glad you mentioned canopy, canopy was a big investment for our organization. It is a, fully preset programmable lighting string that we put up in Robson Square. Plaza, it has 22 presets, something like [00:51:00] 20,000 bulbs. It's an incredible achievement between, our designer tangible,, and ourselves.
Claire Leonard: So that was three years in the making, and that goes up every November, December, January, February. So that's kind of a way that we invest every fiscal, but I know now that's kind of, hopefully in perpetuity we will have that up every, every winter. So two will be put up and you'll kind of notice the theme here.
Claire Leonard: These are all aerial displays because again, that human interaction, we can kind of mitigate that. Yeah. So unless you're incredibly tall, you're really not gonna be able to interact with, and that's not a challenge. Anyone who's listening, you're not gonna be able to interact with that display. And therefore it helps with the longevity of it.
Claire Leonard: But we also had another piece, which was, award-winning. I think there's an embargo we cannot release, the exact award name yet, but I think it will be released in September. We'll, we had an award-winning display. It was an art overhead pride poem where the sun at 12, 11 to 12 noon in the [00:52:00] summer cast its race through colored Perspex.
Claire Leonard: And this sort of incandescent soft, colorful light diffuses down onto the plaza. So it's, it's as immersive as you'd wanna get. And those kinds of. Immersive, but out of harm's way. Interactions are where I project what I want to be in the future. I wanna do amazing award-winning projects where possible, but not at the cost of, you know, not serving the immediate people who walk through there.
Claire Leonard: Like it's not, that's not my top goal. My top goal is just making curious, interesting space that makes people pause and think, oh, that's not something I've seen before. And just maybe. Bit of a perception change, but the sustainability question is a real one because we can't afford to do, you know, those canopy projects every single year.
Claire Leonard: But maybe looking at how do we utilize them in, in different creative ways. I've already got my eye on how do we repurpose some of our. Previous, installations you mentioned, the Taylor Swift installation. We were really pleased [00:53:00] to work with the studio, based out of Montreal called Lamont and they created these bespoke hand cranked lipstick, cowboy boots, et cetera, for the Taylor Swift activation.
Claire Leonard: And they were, they were hand cranked 4.4 million times. That is an absolutely phenomenal vanity metric that I would not have been able to predict. So the other. Part of the equation is the methodology of how we measure that as well, too. It's fine and well investing X amount in something that's beautiful that we can kind of measure in a qualitative sense.
Claire Leonard: But realistically, I want to measure this quantitatively so that I can make a case to do these big, large scale, high impact things in the future as well.
Tim Souza: I love that. And I think that part of my favorite part of that lighting project was that like, it is that reusable, right? You can change out those LED patterns, you can create play, you can create that novelty, but you're being sustainable and you're keeping your assets protected
Tim Souza: So we've talked about kind of what you're doing. You've talked a little bit about those. I'd kind of love to hear that [00:54:00] that piece that you're most excited about that is going to like, allow the listeners when they visit Vancouver to, to check it out in the next couple years as they plan that trip.
Claire Leonard: I love this question and I love that we're ending on this as well too, because I don't wanna sugarcoat like anything that we've discussed, I do.
Claire Leonard: Anyone who's listening, who's working in place making in public space, like, know that I, I appreciate this. It's not idealistic, like it's not a utopian space that we work in in Vancouver, and I don't wanna present it as such. There are real challenges to doing placemaking work here. On the flip side, we also have that benefit of being a spectacularly beautiful city that has attracted, now I think we've got, this is maybe our fifth or sixth major spectacle sporting event that's been attracted to come to Vancouver over the last couple of years.
Claire Leonard: I wasn't here, for the Olympics, but I, the, The legend and the legacy has lived on, be way beyond I think what anyone sort of [00:55:00] anticipated. And my hope is that, with fifa, FIFA coming around the corner, so too will there be this legacy of investment. We do need more investment in Vancouver and more sort of.
Claire Leonard: Conscientious developers to understand. And I see this happen very frequently when I visit, European conferences about developers that are looking at building in placemaking to their, infrastructure, whether that's a ground floor that's like a communal space, or whether that's a big plaza or garden as part of their development.
Claire Leonard: And I think that's kind of. Short of creating more space the way that we're doing with the awesome Alley strategy, I foresee that being the future of placemaking in Vancouver, just us having more room to do things with conscientious partners, because often it's a very hostile funding climate and.
Claire Leonard: Fundraising privately is, is very, very difficult. And I say that as someone that's, you know, coming from a very well-resourced organization. So my [00:56:00] sympathy goes out to anybody who's trying to like, fundraise from zero.
Claire Leonard: It's very, very difficult. It's very, very competitive. So my hope is that with all eyes on Vancouver for Fifa, we had, you know, the Grey Cup, we had the Invictus Games.
Claire Leonard: I think there is a lens of spectacle events visiting Vancouver and I think so too. Hopefully the investment. My anticipation is the investment should follow. And we will have a different space downtown where we have more, we literally have more opportunity, to do large scale things on plazas or smaller-
Claire Leonard: Impactful things within communities and, and I would encourage anybody to research the Granville plan. There is an ambitious, longer term plan, that will take many, many, many years, but it has just been voted in, by council to pedestrianize parts of Granville Street, which would mean we would have even more public space for, you know, us to do outdoor events or, you know, for me to do more public sculpture.[00:57:00]
Claire Leonard: I'm really interested in trails. I love when I visit cities to follow a trail, so I'm thinking about how I build in different trails to the downtown court to just encourage people to explore beyond maybe the one thing that they've, their guidebook, how old, how antiquated their guidebook has told them to visit.
Claire Leonard: Let's be real. It's Google reviews or something, but, you know, I want us to think beyond that and I think, you know, it's, we're a really, really fortunate city, not without its problems, and I'm really excited to. You know, be thinking ahead to the next five years in downtown Van as well.
Tim Souza: Well, I visit Vancouver every couple years, so I can't wait to see this next iteration myself, of what you guys are doing.
Tim Souza: And, I just wanted to thank you so very much for joining us today. I, wish we had like four hours to have this conversation.
Claire Leonard: Don't threaten me, I would take it as well too.
Tim Souza: I want a whole series. Claire, this has been fun. So I just wanted to thank you so very much for joining us and just we're gonna close this out.
Tim Souza: [00:58:00] I can't wait to see what Vancouver does as we, get to watch you move forward into the future with FIFA and honestly this physical transformation where you're taking a beautiful city and making it active. So thank you so very much for joining us today.
Claire Leonard: Thank you so much, Tim. Thank you so much.
Tim Souza: Cheers everyone.
Emily Craven: Ah, man. I really loved that revisiting of Downtown Van with, Claire. Like it really clarified a bunch of questions that I had from episode one. Mm-hmm. Where I was maybe worrying a little bit about the future of Northtown van at downtown Van if, events were all that they were kind of digging their teeth into, but like.
Emily Craven: It's not, they're so not, it's, I, it's a lot. There's a lot to like, and we love it. I think we love it when [00:59:00] we speak to guests where it's very clear that their purpose is to make sure that joy is a part of the infrastructure, right? She really reframes joy as something that you can build into the city in the same way that Melissa and Jared, who we loved having on, also looked at building joy into a city.
Emily Craven: You know, it's an acknowledgement that it's not just something you schedule joy at 3:00 PM on a Sunday. It's an important shift. We can't schedule that. A lot of cities to make, you must be joyous at this designated time. We've put up flat only between one and three. Right. And I think that's great.
Emily Craven: I think that the downtowns that we speak to where they, where placemaking does not just equal programming. Right, and placemaking does not just equal infrastructure build, and they will come that [01:00:00] like, it's, it's, it's not one end of that spectrum or the other end of that spectrum. It is, it is a, you need all of them.
Emily Craven: You need the, the placemaking is the programming. It is the infrastructure. It is the third space and the InBetween lens connective tissue. Right. And, it really resonated. For me that placemaking is a way that you create belonging and through that you, you get the prevention of behaviors that you are trying to change, right?
Emily Craven: The habits that you were trying to change of how people interact with the city. And so I like the whole idea of safety, not as surveillance, but as belonging. How do people feel like they belong rather than it being mm-hmm. Watch by CCT cameras rather than feeling, you know, they feel invited and included rather than feeling charted.
Emily Craven: It's like that, that is public [01:01:00] safety, right? It is. And I think that too. I get excited because it's all of those connected tissues in those pieces that allow for that smart decision making that kind of really backs up everything that we do on the day-to-day with story setting.
Emily Craven: Yeah, no, I was just gonna say, and so I think that like, it's, it's great to see a city who is actively working on those, the problem that we have identified and that we built an entire business around solving that. It's nice to see cities doing that. And so it's, it, it's almost like that parallel evolution of like, yes.
Tim Souza: That everything that we're doing is also noticed by these teams who spend day in and day out and who oversee massive downtown course. Right. They understand that this problem is a problem when they're overseeing all of those city blocks and seeing how everybody interacts on an hour by hour basis.
Tim Souza: On with the businesses and the residents and the city itself. [01:02:00] Yeah. And as they build up those third spaces and as they build out. The interconnected tissue between events, what I would hope that Claire and her team do, because they talked a lot about things like intercept surveys and observation of people at events and all of those good data collecting things.
Emily Craven: Right. But, that is a, a kind of like a, I would call that like a co-creation lot. And I would hope that as they build into that. That, yes, they solicit opinions for what should, what people are interested in, what makes them stay, and all of those sorts of things. But then they use that co-creation relationship to then have the community propose their ideas fulfilling in the gaps, which is something that we will get to visit later in this season with the lovely West Palm Beach.
Emily Craven: You guys are gonna love this. But that would be my hope [01:03:00] for how this evolves as Claire's team get themselves established, you know, take over the old programming and then start to put their own footprint on what that means for them as their team with the new leader.
Tim Souza: Yeah, and I think that, you know, even though you wanted to jump to the East coast quickly, the thing that Vancouver is doing really, really well is connecting those interconnected tissues is the fact that the downtown van is a bit or a BIA rather. So like in a way, yes, we want them to co-create with the community. In that regard, they are co-creating with those businesses. And I think that the fascinating things in this public kind of private partnership that they do have out of the, the nature of their being as a BIA right, is that it really does highlight that real innovation often happens outside of City Hall that mm-hmm.
Tim Souza: Often like adjacent and holding hands with it. It's collaborative. It's not, Hey, we're gonna do this to spite the city. [01:04:00] It's, Hey, the city, we're gonna do this and we hope that it aligns with. The rest of the city, and we're gonna work with those organizations, city organizations, businesses, et cetera, to make that alignment.
Tim Souza: It kind of feels like secondary research to me. Not primary research, which is what you're encouraging. Mm-hmm. But it, it is, they are doing the research and I do wanna highlight that it is, they do a great job with that private public connection that they've built. That's very true.
Emily Craven: And, and I think that they're also, doing a good job in starting to use storytelling infrastructure sustainably. So, like Claire talked about the reprogrammable lighting as one way to keep activations feeling new. They purchase the infrastructure, they change up the lighting patterns and things. So it feels new every year. Right. And it made me think a little bit about how, you know, like story cities, digital infrastructure does the same thing, right?
Emily Craven: You offer a new experience. Without necessarily needing to rebuild it. You can use [01:05:00] similar formats. You can use, you know, you know, things like scavenger hunts, but you can change them up to take people to different sides of the city. You can change them up so that they have interviews or you can change them up so that they have puzzles.
Emily Craven: Like you can use the same structures and you can, you can, offering new experience generally in a much quicker turnaround. And, and a newness like much more quickly than having to. Buy new infrastructural equipment, then having to spend, you know, $50,000 on a new mural and like all of those kinds of things, like they do those kind of tent pole related ones, but they're now looking at how do they story tell with the infrastructure that they already have.
Emily Craven: How does that make things feel new? Like, I really love the, strategicness of that, right? They're building the space to program it. And so, and then, and I think that's, that's exactly you to best in the space creation first. Yeah. Right. Well, and that's what they're doing with their laneway strategy too, right?
Tim Souza: Mm-hmm. Is that they're like, Hey, we, like, we don't have, it's, it goes back to that [01:06:00] initial setup that we kind of had at the beginning of, of the podcast where, where it's like, this is the exciting thing. They don't have parks, they don't have plazas. They don't have that programmable place to put the tent pole, so they gotta, they're addressing that, that issue as well of how to, like their, the famous one being the, the hoops, the basketball one.
Tim Souza: Right Where it's like if you want to go play and do sportsy things, we now have a space for sportsy events, gatherings, community building, right? That pickup game that the city doesn't organize, that the downtown BA is not organizing, but that the people living in those buildings are organizing on Meetup or WhatsApp and they're just coming down to play basketball because they now have a space to do so that's safe.
Tim Souza: Between certain hours. 'cause there's, you know, trash still has to be picked up. Street cleaners still gotta get in there. You know, delivery still has to be made. But they've built that, they're starting with the place to put that 10. Yeah. You can't invite people if there's nowhere for them together.[01:07:00]
Emily Craven: Right. And you know, the way they're using lighting, the way they're using murals, the, they're using wayfinding to tell, to start telling those local stories.. It reminds me of how infrastructure can really become that communicative tool mm-hmm. As one of those tempos and then, you know, their events are kind of on lock and so like, now let's do those connections in between events.
Emily Craven: Right? They're in a really good place. Yeah. And I think that, you know, and then being able to, they have, they've built the infrastructure for those events and to touch on it briefly, shit happens. Right in cities when people gather. And I think that the placemaking lens that they're coming at this with, I think, you know, Claire has the benefit of having grown up in a conflict zone of Belfast.
Tim Souza: But being able to bring that kind of strategic understanding about how the community and the team both feel about this space is the [01:08:00] conflict, and then building that trust in downtown so that they can hold positive tent pole. You know, Grandville Island kind of events, but also hold what happens when humans don't act the way that humans, we want humans to.
Tim Souza: Right? And so being able to. Strategically build the infrastructure so that safety is paramount. So that belonging and the ability for people to gather in those third spaces isn't just about having that physical space, but making sure that the community knows that it's a physical space that's safe for them to gather in.
Emily Craven: And that, and that placemaking does not require you to wait for an area to be conflict free to do it. Absolutely not. Mm-hmm. Right. Especially in when they're taking laneways. Right. And a lot of downtown Vancouver's laneways are not exactly places that I would take my younger nephews and nieces to go play in at the moment.
Tim Souza: But they're cleaning that up, they're fixing it, but I'm, I'm gonna guarantee you there's gonna be like a needle or two that will appear over time in a lane [01:09:00] way. And that they've designed the system to make sure that those are removed from those spaces as quickly as possible is, I think just as impressive to me about the way that the team is thinking around building space and making place for, for their community.
Emily Craven: Yeah. And you know, and part of that belonging is also acknowledging that. Certain cities have a certain culture, and as we've said before, like Vancouverites expect new, they expect things that they can take photographs of, and they expect things to be new. So they expect pretty, and to, sometimes to not be uncomfortable, you know?
Emily Craven: And so, making that scalable. Scalable in a way that, you know, we acknowledge that you can't afford constant installs like FIFA is coming up within Vancouver. Mm-hmm. It's, it's, it's going to be in their ability to have scalable [01:10:00] components that they can leverage FIFA to. Build those out further to use, you know, scalable platforms like Story City to, to refresh narrative without necessarily having to rebuild everything, having to have converted 10 lane ways.
Emily Craven: By the time, you know, people hit the ground, it's right. It's that idea that, you know, newness is scalable. And yes, you have your anchors, you know, grandville block party, they're moving from that event reliance. They have those tent poles, but you know, it's early days. And that's a big opportunity for them is that as they begin this laneway strategy, you know, it means that that connection is an opportunity but also a challenge.
Tim Souza: Yeah. And that, and, and we brought in FIFA into the conversation. So like when those large events, whether it be FIFA or Ette or TED conferences or Taylor Swift coming in, when those mm-hmm. Right. When those large draws are generated, [01:11:00] I think that it's interesting that they're wanting to, you know, play with wayfinding as well.
Tim Souza: Right. Turning that environment into an explorable space. And, another studio that I, that is doing. Do. Hmm. And another city that is doing that really well is kind of our next week's episode in Austin of way finding reliance on major events, shifting away from reliance on major events and building out the explore ability of that downtown space.
Tim Souza: And so I think that what I love in this conversation, if we built from, okay, events can't be your tent pole, how can you build a round so that you can place more tent poles? In your physical infrastructure, what is stopping you from placing more, placing the canvas over the temple poles, right? Like what is stopping you from building that interconnective tissue and moving into next week of, okay, let's see it at, with a city in the States who has built their entire vibrancy space around a couple of large annual events, and [01:12:00] they've noticed that that has become a weak point, so they're moving away from it.
Tim Souza: And so we can come do a direct comparison between Vancouver and the city of Austin, which we hope to show to you next week. Which I love that. So, heading to textiles, we are gonna have a wonderful time with Matthew Schmidt from the office of culture. And, you know, talk about that. What happens when placemaking becomes policy.
Emily Craven: It's gonna be really exciting. We highly recommend that you come and listen to Matthew talk about. Placemaking and cultural policy from an economic lens where, for a really long time, the reason that they have been able to build the kind of reputation that they have is because they have been able to protect their arts under economic development and the acknowledgement that arts does bring in a lot of money into a city.
Emily Craven: And, so I'm really excited for you guys to hear that conversation. Yeah. And they take a definite different approach than the city of Vancouver who also [01:13:00] has a lot of art in that downtown space that funds, you know, that is funded by businesses that brings people in to make them feel fun, et cetera.
Tim Souza: So, I'm gonna say that again. And, and, and in a different way than downtown Vancouver does, who already has a bunch of the art up just like Austin, and they're learning to draw people in and about. So thank you so very much for joining us today with the City of Vancouver, and we will see you next week in Austin, Texas.
Tim Souza: Cheers, y'all.
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