March 17, 2026
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Vibrant Spaces is back for Season 2! In this podcast we connect with the people and places doing big things to bring their cities and towns to life. Tune in weekly for new episodes and new insights!
In this episode we focus on Vancouver, BC, Canada where we sit down with Clare Warner, to discuss how the City of Vancouver is creating lasting vibrancy beyond pop-up events and installations.
SUBSCRIBE WHEREVER YOU LOVE TO LISTEN:
As the former Manager of Placemaking and Public Spaces, at the Downtown Vancouver BIA, Clare takes us through the core tenets of environmental design in the downtown core - from the city’s approach to public space ownership, to its unique take on public art installations, and the importance for permanent infrastructure to support outdoor initiatives. Together we dive into the city’s master plan for public art installations, the need for community surrounding local art and events, and we try to answer the question: can events alone be enough to build lasting vibrancy?
This episode covers:
CONNECT WITH OUR HOSTS: Emily Craven | Tim Souza
ABOUT OUR GUEST
CLARE WARNER - Manager, Placemaking and Public Spaces, Vancouver Downtown BIA (at the time of recording) - Clare Warner is originally from Ireland and has been living in Canada since 2015. The past 6 years she has been working with Downtown Van, the business improvement association that covers 90 blocks of Downtown Vancouver. As the Placemaking Manager, Clare’s work ranges from beautification projects such as public art, streetscape enhancement and laneway transformations, to leading urban activations and events like the Granville Block Party and Summer Movie Night series. Clare believes that Placemaking is about building civic pride and fostering human connection through environmental design, and she is passionate about creating spaces that are conducive to memorable moments and spontaneity.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:
Tim Souza: Hey there friends, and welcome back to our Vibrant Spaces. Third episode in season two. I'm your host, Tim Souza with my amazing co-host and boss lady Emily Craven. And we are so excited today because we are entering into a first of two little miniseries in, this season for this one focused on downtown Vancouver's Business Improvement Association, or here in the state that would be a business improvement district of bid.
Tim Souza: And so we're so excited to speak to two Claire's as a part of this. Two part miniseries. They are both Irish and, one gave us an Irish goodbye on the way out, and the other one said an Irish Hello on the way in. So we're super excited to jump into these. [00:01:00] First, person we have today is Claire Warner.
Tim Souza: She's the former director of planning and engagement, for downtown Van’s BIA.
Tim Souza: Emily, can you tell us a little bit about this Claire Warner person?
Emily Craven: Yeah, so, Claire Warner, the beautiful, the delightful Irish Claire Warner. She has been living in Canada since 2015, the past six years. She's been working with Downtown Van, which as Tim said, business Improvement Association covers 90 blocks in downtown Vancouver, so it is the largest,
Emily Craven: BIA in western Canada. And as that placemaking manager, Claire's work really ranged from beautification projects, so like public art to street scape enhancement and, laneway transformations to, leading urban activations and events like the Grandville Block Party and the summer movie night series.
Emily Craven: And so Claire believes that placemaking is about. Building, you know, civic pride and fostering human connection through environmental design. She's [00:02:00] really passionate about creating spaces that are conducive to like memorable moments and spontaneity. And she really ushered them through COVID, right when it was, it was quite difficult to get people out and about and engaging safely.
Emily Craven: And I think that the thing that this first. Episode in Vancouver because we, as Tim said, we do have two, the, the conversation really raises this big question of like, we hear it across North America that events are a main placemaking tool. And bringing up that question, can events alone build vibrancy or do they really risk being.
Emily Craven: Like sugar highs with no long-term. Right. High nutritional value, I suppose the analogy,
Tim Souza: Yeah. I think the word that I know that they used out of Vancouver that came out of both of these conversations was the word lift. So like how long is that lift? Is it a day? Is it a week, is it a month? How long is that sugar high?
Tim Souza: Right? Kind of where you're getting at.
Emily Craven:Yeah, exactly. And we do, hear kind of like some of the, the ranges, you know, there's the Taylor Swift versus their Grandville block party. So like, we'll dive into that in this episode.
Emily Craven: And. I think that the, thing that I love is that Claire shares things like behind the scenes like infrastructure required to make these events happen and, you know, to make them inclusive and frequent and, and, and city shaping, so that people come to look forward to them year after year, which I think is a, is a part of building that consistency
Emily Craven: Right?
Tim Souza: And that seasonality too, right? Especially in a city like Vancouver that experiences seasonality. A little differently than the rest of Canada.
Tim Souza: it's really exciting to have to be over the border in this city this time to, to have that kind of conversation and just split it into two episodes,
Tim Souza: Mm-hmm. So experience that, I'm excited to have the conversation as we split this into two episodes.
Tim Souza: Of exploring, [00:04:00] you know, the limits, of, in the power of events, as you kind of just mentioned, and what happens, when you do create that seasonality, but then also jumping into next week how they go beyond that.
Tim Souza: Right. And so focusing this first one one what does these event building pieces look like and what is it like when, um, you're kind of forced to because of COVID, because of global environmental things, build an event first. You know, expectation for 90 city blocks, that's residents, that's business owners.
Tim Souza: That's third spaces, all that exist within the downtown Vancouver space, without, you know, calling it something like revitalization. And that's part of one of my favorite pieces of what Claire talks to us about is how the language has changed from revitalization you'll have to stay tuned, just to figure out what that is that they use instead.
Tim Souza: But that mindset shift, I think, opens up a very different kind of strategy for the city as well.
Emily Craven: Yeah, it's, it's like inviting, it's inviting people in. Right. It's, it's, it's trying to invite people in rather [00:05:00] than making them feel that you're fixing something that's wrong.
Emily Craven: And I think that, you know, personal curiosity, we were especially interested in how they were using, using events to draw people back into downtown and Right.
Emily Craven: Um, and, and you know, what happens when that festival is over? What is left behind? Who is, staying? So let's get into it
Tim Souza: And what do the people remember? Yeah, absolutely. Without further ado, Claire Warner, everyone.
Emily Craven: Hello. Thank you so much for joining us, Claire.
Clare Warner: Thank you for having me. Great to be here.
Emily Craven: We are, very excited to be able to hit our, I think it's our first Canadian city, even though I'm, I'm based in Canada. How is this our first Canadian city, Tim? I don't know. I think it's just, how we have been focused as a team recently, mainly on the states and a little bit on Canada.
Emily Craven: Maybe that's how the world is focused on at the [00:06:00] moment. Well, mainly on the states, A little bit on Canada. It's okay. We're just on theme. Well, Claire, it has been awesome to kind of get to know you a little bit, and over the, the last couple calls, but I want to help our audience get to know you a little bit as well.
Emily Craven: So you've been in, Vancouver since 2015, correct?
Clare Warner: Yeah, so I moved here back in 2015 from Ireland. I'm originally from South Kilkenny, a place called Moon Coin in Ireland. And immigrating is something that we just love to do in Ireland, so we definitely have a sense of adventure and yeah, at the time Canada was kind of in my sights and I really had no idea what to expect when I first moved here, but Vancouver seemed like a really good idea and I've been here ever since and absolutely love it. It's a great city to live in.
Tim Souza: That's beautiful.Vancouver was also where I landed and I didn't, [00:07:00] understand how the phone numbers worked in Vancouver, and so when I landed, I got myself a phone number, not realizing that the, the cell phone numbers were very location specific.
Tim Souza: And then I moved out of Vancouver and everyone was like, where is your phone number from?
Clare Warner: People have really hung up on that here. Like 6 0 4 is the original area code here. And if you have like the new 2, 3, 6, like that's, yeah, exactly.
Tim Souza: What are you even doing? So speaking of Vancouver then, I mean, why Vancouver out of all of the cities in Canada? First off?
Clare Warner: Yeah, so I actually had some friends who had moved here, years ago, and I. Actually studied in oil or in geology. So I was considering working in oil and gas. So I got my visa to come and live in Canada, and initially my intention was to go to Calgary. And I guess at this time I just realized that would not be the industry for me.
Clare Warner: It wouldn't align with my [00:08:00] values, and I ended up. At a family reunion with, a long lost cousin from Seattle who founded the store Zoomies. And he was telling me all about, Vancouver and how beautiful it was. And I touched base with my friends who had also been here, and I remember there was this one guy called Jeff and he was telling me that, you know, Vancouver is one of the only places where you can sit with your, feet in the sand, the sun at your back, and the skyline in front of you in the mountains behind it. And I just remember that sounding so beautiful. So I was like, okay, I'll, I'll give Vancouver a try and we'll see what happens.
Clare Warner: And after I got here, I, I just landed on my feet really quickly. It was very easy to kind of integrate into the community and, I had intended on going on to New Zealand afterwards for a while, but I just could not leave. And Vancouver has a way of doing that.
Tim Souza: It stole [00:09:00] your heart.
Tim Souza: So, then as, as a place that has stolen your heart, what would be like the most special location or place in Vancouver for you and why? Oh,
Clare Warner: I love the seaside there, the sea wall is probably a pretty typical answer, but I've just got such great memories of first bringing my family there and it's such an iconic, spot for Vancouver.
Clare Warner: So it extends all around, the downtown Peninsula into Kitano. You can see the North Strom Mountains. And really anywhere that you can kind of go in and, and take a swim as well. There's a great, spot called Rec Beach as well. That is my favorite beach to swim at and yeah, I mean, it's just beautiful.
Clare Warner: It's really like the epitome of Vancouver
Tim Souza: And so it's really awesome that you both have gotten to find this new city and call it your own and then make it your own over the last decade. But you also get to [00:10:00] help work in building its thriving placemaking ecosystem. Yeah. And so I'd love to maybe transition our conversation into that.
Tim Souza: A little bit, and I'm super excited to really hear about how this place led ecosystem functions within the city of Vancouver. And so to start off, can you quickly describe that, what that landscape looks like and how your VA that you get to work for that empowers this fund community, fits into this place led ecosystem that we hear is a pride point, from the city of Vancouver.
Clare Warner: Yeah, a hundred percent. It's a very interesting ecosystem in Vancouver and I think from my perspective, downtown Van is definitely at the helm of that and we're doing some really great work, alongside all of the partners that it takes to, get that work don and so placemaking to me is really about building civic pride, and fostering that connection to place among the community.
Clare Warner: And how that kind of factors [00:11:00] in for, US as an organization and we're a business improvement association, is that it has this kind of positive impact, that goes. Far beyond just the projects and has this kind of real longevity and legacy to it. And so we focus our programming. And I guess our, our take on placemaking from the BIA a's point of view is focused in two different streams, and those are activations and beautification.
Clare Warner: So activations being different large scale events or even, you know, kind of medium to small scale events or popups that kind of instill connection are moments where people can take in a performance, go see a, you know, a huge street festival, or take in an outdoor movie on the plaza. And beautification is more to do with the physical surroundings and streetscape enhancements.
Clare Warner: [00:12:00] So when we look at beautification, we're thinking public art, laneway transformations. The pink alley is a destination that we created alongside HDMA and the city of Vancouver. And, even things like street banners and murals and sculptures downtown van is very much, I think leading the way with the partners that it takes to, bridge that kind of public and private gap and bring a little bit of vibrancy to downtown Vancouver.
Tim Souza: Yeah. So that, I think, is one of my interesting areas that I always like to double click on in these podcasts, which is, you mentioned that this ecosystem is relying upon this network of public and private partnerships. How does that look for you? Like what is the net positive, you know, exchange that, that, that, that is involved in these public and private partnerships?
Clare Warner: Yeah, I [00:13:00] think we are so well positioned to build on that because we are a BIA because we're a business improvement association, the net positive impact is always gonna come back to thriving social and economic impact. And so. Where we fit in is that we obviously advocate for and do our work for, the member businesses, but we work really closely with the city to do that.
Clare Warner: We work really closely with property managers and we also don't own any space downtown. Like first of all, we're on Unseeded territories. And so what we do is partner with the different property managers and owners, of within the 90 blocks in our district. And, say, okay, what kind of space is there access to?
Clare Warner: Who holds the responsibility for these spaces? Is it the city? [00:14:00] Is it the province? Is it, a private entity? And we work, we've worked with them over the, you know, past, 10, 15 years to kind of build this understanding that. Access to public space is a responsibility. And so, pops or, publicly accessible.
Clare Warner: But privately owned spaces are, have been our focus as well as city owned kind of plazas and park spaces. So then it's kind of about coming up with a strategy to activate them or improve or enhance,, the experience of being in those spaces through beautification effort.
Tim Souza: Beautiful. And so I'm, I'm curious as to whether you could give us some examples of some of those public and private partnerships.
Tim Souza: Maybe, an example in terms of the property management, as one and maybe, [00:15:00] an example between the city as a, as another, to give us kind of an idea of the breadth of, of those, in the real world.
Clare Warner: Yeah, a hundred percent. So, one that I really like to give a shout out to is Hudson Pacific Properties.
Clare Warner: They have a complex downtown of several different towers and they've redone their entire space, not only in a physical sense. They worked with, I think it was Happa Collaborative to redesign the space into the ware patio it's now called. But they've also then coupled that with activations.
Clare Warner: And what I think is really smart about how they've done that is that they've put someone in charge of doing that internally. So not all property owners. Our property managers actually have those resources with someone at the helm to dictate programming. And when I say programming, I'm talking, okay, it's Cherry Blossom Festival.
Clare Warner: How do we connect with the Cherry Blossom Festival to, do something in our space [00:16:00] for that time of year? And then also what kind of, programs can we do in our vacancies? And also what if we did some busing and what if we just. Put out some public seating. What if we did a mural here So they have someone at the helm to literally manage that space.
Clare Warner: And her name is Ashley Chandler and Chuck, we, who's on our board at Downtown Van. So that, the team at Hudson Pacific that I think have really been transformative in that space. And a lot of the other property managers in downtown Vancouver are really looking to them and seeing, okay, how can we kind of replicate that?
Clare Warner: I think that's a really fun thing about property managers is that. They get a little bit competitive. So, we,
Tim Souza: So being a little bit mercenary in my look, of that is, what do the property managers get out of that? Like, is it that they no longer have vacancy in, in their, in their street level?
Tim Souza: Like areas? Like why, why do you think that?
Clare Warner: Ultimately? Yeah. [00:17:00] They want to see return to the office and they want to see, a decline in the vacancy rate, right? So the more, demand that there is on the space, the better the outcome is going to be for them.
Clare Warner: And it also sets them up in a much more positive light. You know, as a stakeholder in this. City and so we can kind of then come in and be that support to them when they're looking to, let's say, get a different permit or, or they don't necessarily know how to go about the right route to, to get there.
Clare Warner: So it has all these positive knock on effects for them in terms of their bottom line as well.
Tim Souza: So in terms of partnerships, then you are helping, do regulatory pathways for them. You are maybe potentially partnering with them on program ideas. Do you guys also share funds for programming as well?
Clare Warner: Yeah, we can and a lot of the time it's like, okay, there's a certain festival that is looking for a space. Okay, [00:18:00] we'll make the introduction or we'll go to them with ideas. But because they have someone at the helm, they have someone kind of really managing and in charge of those ideas, already.
Clare Warner: So, yeah, I think the partnership is a very symbiotic one.
Tim Souza: So if we were to look at a, a city that maybe didn't have someone at the helm, as you're saying, who's, who's as active in, from a property management side in advocating for themselves in that same way, what would you recommend to someone who might be in your position in a different city, who doesn't have that, that partner reaching across the table the other way?
Clare Warner: Yeah, and I think they're definitely at the, you know, the top tier where it often ends up is sort of in that middle ground of someone maybe is doing the work off the side of their desk. But in, in my role and in our role at Downtown Van, It's, it's still about kind of making those introductions and understanding the assets that you [00:19:00] have in a space.
Clare Warner: So aerospace being 90 blocks like in downtown Vancouver, we have to understand what the different, maybe opportunities are with certain sites, where there might be a plaza that would work really great for sculpture. And we know that the bien alley has sculptures that are in storage that, okay, maybe we can make these introductions.
Clare Warner: So I think it takes time, first of all to understand the network of the ecosystem who exists in what space, and then kinda how to connect the dots, but putting in that effort of understanding. Who the sort of cultural organizers are out there, and then who holds the access to what those cultural organizers are trying to access, whether that is funding or space or, support in permitting.
Clare Warner: I think that's where we can really come in as that connector because we work really closely with the municipality. We have this [00:20:00] goal of an enhanced and vibrant downtown Vancouver, and we understand the sort of maybe policy or kind of. Other strategies that can support each other, and then bridging the gaps and the connections to get there.
Tim Souza: Okay. So, I mean, you guys are, are actively involved then in the downtown arts space touching all of these different parts of the ecosystem, and I'm assuming that's why the public, the downtown public arts strategy lies with your team versus the city and which is another thing that makes Vancouver so very unique as a, an ecosystem because you're not, you're a BIA that is, that is running the
Tim Souza: Downtown public art strategy. So can you talk to me a little bit about that and then what the next three to five years look like, as you guys are overseeing the strategy for the city of Vancouver?
Clare Warner: Yeah, a hundred percent. It probably is a bit more unusual for a BIA to, you know, execute on their own public art strategy.
Clare Warner: And of course it still relies on partnership [00:21:00] from members, from the city of Vancouver and from artists themselves. But really we've been doing this work all along and the public art strategy is really just a way for us to formalize that process. And it's got four strategic priorities.
Clare Warner: So the first one is to include members and local communities in the art process. So over the next three to five years, that will look like forming more of a committee to inform on the public art process. It's even looked like considering and forming in a public art roster or an artist roster that we created last year where folks can apply to be part of this roster and we can go to them for specific projects.
Clare Warner: It's a little bit more transparency in the work that we're doing. The second strategic priority is creating opportunities. For artwork that enhances the perception of safety. So considering creative lighting as an artwork, and including artworks of [00:22:00] various scales, permanence, and budgets is the,
Clare Warner: Third priority. I think for us, the way that people experience art can be really broad, especially in the public setting. So we consider that to be even art workshops, experiential art, not just murals and not just sculptures, but it's a very, very broad, spanning kind of term that has. Various kind of scales of permanence to different popups as well.
Clare Warner: And then the last priority is to instigate impact through, impact and action through public art. So we really wanna see engagement and we want to see people really immersing themselves in public art downtown. And I think the reason that it's us that's doing it is 'cause. Of the position that we hold as a BIA, being really connected to members to the impact of the work that we're doing in place making, but also having that very close relationship with the city and with, landowners in downtown Vancouver.
Tim Souza: You know, that's interesting. I think I wanted to, to [00:23:00] throw to Em, you were talking about the, there's a value between like those temporary popup experiences and those that are a little bit more permanent. And I think that what Claire was just talking about sounds like an amazing backdrop. You know, for that conversation, I wanna toss it to you to, to chat a bit about that and, and ask Claire about what Vancouver's doing with that.
Emily Craven: Yeah, because I, and, and I think that, that, that variance in permanence is really valid. I, do, I have heard, you know, people kind of look at that and say, oh. You are just throwing money at art that isn't, doesn't even stay there forever. Like, what are you doing? But I, I think that it's an acknowledgement that, not only tastes change, but politics changes, right?
Emily Craven: And, and when you look at something at the permanence of a, of a structure and you say, oh, this is, you know. $250,000 sculpture that's gotta live here forever. And then 10 years down the track, people are like, why is this giant sculpture of balls here? We don't understand? And, and, and so [00:24:00] the, the money that's invested in that makes it harder to change with,
Emily Craven: The culture and the immigration that happens and the new politics and all of those sorts of things. Yeah. And so I think that that's very smart. That that, that that's that semi permanence of acknowledging that yes, we do wanna have some cornerstone pieces, um, that maybe don't offend anyone. But at the same time, we also acknowledge the fact that that semi permanence is a thing, but also newness is a thing.
Emily Craven: Yeah. Like with, with the attention economy being so short, the fact that if you have something where people know that every year Yeah. This artwork in this particular plaza is going to be replaced or every quarter or, or whatever. It encourages people to come, to, come back and, and with a frequency, that is, that can be very strategic.
Clare Warner: Yeah, a hundred percent. And I think, you know, a great example of this would be COVID. Like we had so many different popups that were in response to the co COVID initiatives [00:25:00] And like, where would we have been or where would we be now if they had to be permanent or if that, that hoarding that, you know, covered up a business was still there.
Clare Warner: So I think art is really responsive to its environment and to the circumstances of the moment. And it, it also like the way that we're viewing, the different kind of scales of permanence also allows. For this not to just be for tourists. Like we don't just want the digital orca downtown because I mean, I live here, how often am I gonna visit that?
Clare Warner: I'm gonna be more likely to go to, something that's new or exciting or interesting than,you know, back to the digital orca that I first visited in my first week here. So it allows us to really cater to both locals, and tourists as well.
Tim Souza: Yeah, really. Leveraging how people utilize that, the physical built environment and that space, right?
Tim Souza: Mm-hmm. Like the, and placing, and I think that, you know, it's fascinating [00:26:00] as we've had this conversation around what placemaking looks like in the city of Vancouver, you mentioned that though there are things like this that your team leans into to, to build and empower and enhance. There are things that you try to stay away from specifically, specifically like vernacular choice, words like revitalization.
Tim Souza: It has like a negative connotation for your team as you're doing all of this really important work. And so I was curious if you could potentially tell and tell us why we don't like the word revitalization so much in Vancouver, and, what words you would prefer, as utilize instead that gives the same meaning without the negative connotations if you wouldn't.
Clare Warner: Yeah, I think it is an interesting conversation. I think, for me the word revitalization can sometimes be overused when we're talking about, planning or in particular specific areas. And the negative connotation I think can also be attributed towards gentrification. So what is the [00:27:00] opposite of revitalization?
Clare Warner: Is it gonna be gentrification? Is it not? Is it just bringing back vitality? Maybe the vitality is already there and we just need to expose it or enhance it. So, it's, it's aware that comes a lot in like the partnership between economic development and placemaking and just one of those things that comes up a lot and you're like, oh, there's that word again.
Clare Warner: And I think for me it's really enhancing, like, enhancing sense of place is it's not about, you know, coming up with a brand new project and putting a square peg in a round hole. It's about. Expanding on, the essence of a place and establishing the identity that's really linked to place. So revitalizing and revitalization, can sometimes be a bit of a trigger word because it's, it's very tied to economic development.
Clare Warner: And yet, I think my preference would be to look at how do [00:28:00] we enhance this space and how do we support it. Yeah,
Emily Craven: That's beautiful. And, and, but it's also when you're looking at things, as you say, from a negative or positive lens, right? Where like, yeah, what is the, what is the wolf you feed? Is it the, is it the negative one or the, or the positive one.
Emily Craven: And, and you're right, revitalization does imply that something is wrong. And while that might be the case, I think that it's, it's various forms of adjustment where, this thing is going right and this thing needs adjustment and, and, and being able to balance those, yeah. Hmm. \
Tim Souza: Well, and I think that the word vitality, you know, I hadn't really mm-hmm. Thought about the etymology of revitalization when you were like, well, the, you know, the space has vitality. You're like, oh, I think it really does frame it from that perspective of like, you're right. It's, it's the wolf. You're feeding. Are we coming in and saying. This is a neighborhood that needs to, that is not vital, you know, doesn't have enough vitality on all on its own.
Emily Craven: I think that one way that nor that, that downtown Van has done this really well [00:29:00] is that you have a flagship event, which you call the Grandville Block Party.
Emily Craven: And so can you tell us a little bit about what this activation is, how long it goes for and, and why you throw it? Because that definitely seems to be that that premium example of building on the vibrancy and vitality of what is already there.
Clare Warner: Yeah, I'm so proud of the Granville Block Party.
Clare Warner: This is our signature event, especially for Granville Street. It takes place on, within the Granville Entertainment District, which is our hub for nightlife. But it takes place in the daytime, which is what we really wanted to highlight. And speaking of partnerships, this is probably one of the best examples of that.
Clare Warner: So initially it. It began as, a COVID program open up the streets, and it was for six weeks and we called it the, [00:30:00] grandpa Promenade for the first two years. So we ran it for six weekends in August for the first two years. And we ran it a little bit further south on Granville Street, and we started to see that the, I guess, need for what the event was wanting to become was, I guess evolving over time.
Clare Warner: And so what initially came down from a counselor mandated motion to, you know. Identify what we can do to close down the streets on these weekends turned into this absolute festival. And so I gotta give a shout out to Councilor Sarah Kirby Young for, really beginning the, idea for this program.
Clare Warner: And we've been at the helm of leading it now, since its inception. So it takes place over two days. At the end of August and the goals are really to shine a spotlight on Granville Street and what it, what is [00:31:00] possible for Granville Street. It's a very important time in history for Granville Street right now, as the city is working on, the Granville Street Plan.
Clare Warner: So an event like this is the perfect opportunity to showcase it at its finest. The other goals include, you know, engaging attendees and communities to make that really notable economic impact and to foster diverse programming, which is everything that this event is about. So. Over those two days, we get about 40 to 45,000 people coming out.
Clare Warner: We've got drag, we've got voguing, we've got several different stages. We've got food trucks, we've got indigenous programming, we've got kid zones. We've got busking. We've got all sorts of entertainment happening and the plays are bustling and alive. And, I never see, like the negative comments just don't exist during this time, which is.
Clare Warner: Probably the opposite to what people would usually expect of Granville [00:32:00] Street. So I think for me it's a really great way to highlight what's possible. And the partnerships that it takes to get there are multifaceted. So it's, businesses, it's weather event, organizers, event lab, it's with the city staff.
Clare Warner: They've been super supportive in getting to the place where we now have the entire two and a half blocks, fully licensed. And it's completely family friendly at the same time. So we've got that support from the city, from VPD and ensuring it's a really safe event as well.
Tim Souza: Interesting. And so you'd mentioned earlier that, you know, locals want to come back to, um. Events and things that change and that are different and yeah. This is, this, these 40 to 45,000 people that come are, are they local or are, do you find that there are people coming in from out of the area?
Clare Warner: It is a little bit of both.
Clare Warner: There's a lot of tourists that come at that time of year because of the cruise [00:33:00] ships. But we get a lot of locals and we get a lot of like, repeat customers coming back over our. Customers or repeat attendees coming back every year because it's such a unique experience.And what's really interesting is that we did some analysis of the Taylor Swift, event impact, and that was a lot of outer out of towners coming in.
Clare Warner: And while the impact was obviously really, really high, when it compares to a more local event like the Granville Block Party that still locally has a high impact, the economic lift. That is experienced. It extended for the, like of a local event versus for Taylor Swift, it declined like the day after, she left town.
Clare Warner: So I think what that shows us is that people come to Grandville, see the experience that they can have and they keep coming back for longer after, which is exactly what we want to see happening. And the other thing is that we've. We've got such [00:34:00] positive response and feedback from attendees and from the businesses every year that they wanna see it return every year.
Clare Warner: You know, it's got about a hundred, a hundred performers every over the two days and the four stages. It's got a high economic impact of close to a million dollars just over those two days. It's got 30 volunteers. So it's a really highly engaged event, with a high economic and social impact.
Emily Craven: Can, can you speak a little bit more to that, that halo effect of the local, event versus the, you know, the, the Taylor Swift kind of bump. How long have you seen that last for like, how, how is, is there a certain percentage that it increases spending? Like you've stated that like. People believe and feel that they are safer in downtown.
Emily Craven: So it's, it's slowly changing their perception of, of, of how safe someone is in a downtown street, particularly during the day. Can you speak a little bit more about that halo [00:35:00] effect and how that.
Clare Warner: Yeah, a hundred percent. So what we see when we survey people, we ask, how safe do you feel here? You know, why are you coming down or why are you here?
Clare Warner: 50% of people are coming downtown just for the event, which means that we're bringing about 20,000 people downtown just to attend that. And of course when there's, higher attendees and when there's kind of. Positive social interaction, that sense of safety is going to raise and, and going to increase.
Clare Warner: There's more eyes on the street as well, so people feel really safe and they report that to us during our surveying as well. And then on the economic side, we found that about 65% of people were more motivated to come downtown just because they've experienced this event, which is huge. That's more than half the people coming and saying, you know what, I should come downtown more often.
Clare Warner: Like, this is actually really great, like this is what I can experience when I come here. And so we see just such a high po like really positive outcome [00:36:00] from this in both the social, the safety, and the economics. The data shows that the lift that's experienced from a more local event like a block party is prolonged from, a more higher impact event like Taylor Swift.
Tim Souza: Can I ask a question about that long tail? So you were saying that like in the day or so that the event is running a million dollars transacts, what does that lift look like on an economic development impact Say over like, over what period of time are we talking the Lyft following versus like a a Taylor Swift experience?
Clare Warner: Let me see. Oh gosh. So for the grandma block priority, the lift happened from the 24th of August to the 1st of September last year, Rose Taylor Swift, she was here from the sixth, seventh, and eighth, and by the 10th, so two days after, there was no more economic lift from what our data shows. And you can read more on that in the [00:37:00] state of downtown report that we released about two weeks ago.
Clare Warner: So we do an annual economic report, we just released that data.
Emily Craven: I love a good report. We will add that to the show notes. Everyone, just so you know, and maybe, maybe we can add the art strategy report, into those show notes as well. Hundred percent.
Clare Warner: It's coming out tomorrow. I'll send it over.
Emily Craven: Amazing. Beautiful. I'm excited by that. So how would, other cities look at being able to set this up? So is is the idea, you said that the idea is to show off like what Granville Street can be and what it can do. So is the idea to have. Other people do block parties, and also as a city that maybe has not done blocking off of the streets frequently.
Emily Craven: How would you go about setting this up as a new city?
Clare Warner: Yeah, a hundred percent. So over the six years, it's obviously taken time to get to this point where we feel it's at its peak, and of course there's gonna be growing pain. So what I'd recommend for a city who's starting out is we really, we had [00:38:00] the political buy-in.
Clare Warner: This was a counselor mandated motion to identify how to block off the street and, and open it up to foot traffic. And obviously we used COVID as that, that kind of initial, sort of catalyst to do that. So obviously identifying the opportune moments is, is good, having the political support as well as the city staff who kind of know how to execute on and support you.
Clare Warner: That's been crucial. We found great partners who had done similar events in the past and who were able to kinda execute on the logistics of that for us as production partners. So really knowing who's out there that can execute on your vision and starting small, like it's never gonna start out at a 40,000 capacity event.
Clare Warner: Vut it could grow to that depending on like the scale and obviously your budget. We've looked at grants, we look at sponsorship and different ways to support that as well beyond, [00:39:00] just so that we can kind of grow it to where it's gotten. So we've been successful in that right. As well. And I'd say for us we, we wanna showcase Granville is that we've also created a guidebook on how to plan an event like this.
Clare Warner: And what resources are available to do that. So the goal being to kind of drive more different festivals and programmers towards Scramble Street and identify that as an opportunity.
Emily Craven: Beautiful. Thank you so much, Claire. I appreciate that. Is that, is that, is that guidebook also something that we can share with the, the, the audience? Is this an internal guidebook?
Clare Warner: I don't think it's finalized yet. It's more in internal toolkit for like people in Vancouver that are festival organizers.
Emily Craven: Fine. If you guys wanna poke Claire for her internal book. Now.
Tim Souza: Awesome. Well, Claire, thank [00:40:00] you so very much for joining us today and for bringing all of these brilliant, like different lenses to the city of Vancouver. I know it's a city that when I moved to Canada also started my experience in, in Vancouver before moving to Toronto. So, I know it's a beautiful city to be in, to land in, and it's so wonderful to know that they have someone like yourself.
Tim Souza: Sitting in the helm, keeping everything up and moving, positively and keeping the health of, of the community going. With that being said, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on our call today. And the last question that Emily and I like to ask everyone is, is this is if, is there a book or books that you like to give as a gift and why you give so many gifts to the city of Vancouver, if, is there a book or books that have influenced your life that you love to give?
Tim Souza: Other people that you would want to give someone else, because it set you off on such an amazing direction in your own journey.
Clare Warner: I am an avid reader, but I'm a fiction reader. I, for some reason, cannot [00:41:00] Sit through like an educational book about placemaking. Like I find them very useful, but I'm gonna talk fiction here and I'm gonna go one kind of weird and one just beautiful.
Clare Warner: The, the weird book that I love is, called The Mustache, and it's about a man who shaves his mustache one day and then. His girlfriend's like, what? You never had a mustache? And it goes from there and he basically go and it goes, is he going crazy, is he not? We'll see, it's a very, very well written book that just kind of causes you to understand maybe like from someone else's perspective every once in a while.
Clare Warner: The second book that I'd recommend is The Covenant of Water. It's just a beautifully, beautifully written book. It's, a little, it's a, a bit of a chunky book, but, the character development in that was my favorite book of last year that I'm currently recommending to people. So.
Emily Craven: Love it.
Emily Craven: Beautiful. Well, [00:42:00] thank you Claire, so much for coming and joining us on the Apartment Space podcast. It's been a pleasure. We look forward to chatting to other people in, in the Vancouver area as well, hopefully as part of this season. But otherwise, thank you kindly. We really appreciate you being here.
Clare Warner: Thanks, Emily. Thanks, Tim. Take care. Cheers. Bye.
Emily Craven: Oh, thank you so much, Claire. Claire did this interview when she was two days out of leaving from position as the director. She didn't have to do this. She did because she's lovely.
Tim Souza: Mm-hmm. Yes. I just think it's funny that we got to talk to Claire, Irish Claire, number one, who said goodbye to us and as our introduction to the city and just.
Tim Souza: The joy of an Irish goodbye. And then number two, being able to come back next week and talk to another player and fill in some of those gaps. [00:43:00] Because as we know, those handoffs are often kind of like a tennis match where you're kind of bouncing it back and forth. So she did a great job on her way out being like, Hey, here we go.
Emily Craven: Yeah, it is, it is clear squared, and I, I love it. I'm here for that. You know, and the other thing that I'm here for is like, you know, it's very clear, but the Claire's team, like they've put a lot of care into. They have in making downtown feel active most days, not just like a few big weekends, not just when Taylor Swift rolls around.
Emily Craven: Right? And you know, they're in the process of using consistency to build trust. And trust builds vibrancy. Right? Mm-hmm. And so taking that to be public space, as we say, is not fixing it, but as an invitation. And you can see how they're using events to reteach people how to be downtown again. Right. They don't have all the answers.
Emily Craven: They haven't [00:44:00] fixed all of the problems, but like especially after COVID, that kind of cultural mm-hmm. Re-invitation is really essential. And I think that. A lot of cities that we speak to have not made that necessary process of reinviting people. Rather than just presuming that everything goes back to normal and they just go back to doing their stuff as normal, like they really need us to be a concerted effort to re-invite people into that space.
Tim Souza: Yeah, and I think that goes back to that re removing revitalization as a word and just using invitation. Right in inviting intentionally with the language that you even use as a team, that everything is that invitation rather than something that needs to be revitalized.
Tim Souza: And I think out of all of that, the thing that I love most was that kind of UX or user experience style thinking like [00:45:00] testing, like sidewalk decals for way finding, measuring perceptions of safety and, and belonging. I think that goes back to that invitation piece.
Tim Souza: They're inviting people into belonging more than anything else in these spaces. But that's really where like the design thinking piece that I love that comes out of like the tech space meets placemaking in a very beautiful way. And in a way that is like there's, there, they have a formal process to it, but it's also incredibly flexible and allows them to have kind of this experimentation model that kind of treats every project a little bit like a startup, like if they throw the popups up there, the food trucks, is how does that land with the city?
Tim Souza: And, you know, as those kind of mini events that you were mentioning throughout the year rather than that big. Kickoff, and it's the way that they did that, through that user-centric design that I think is really fascinating. But I have to ask him, because this is your space and we have a consistent conversation about events being this vibrancy strategy, and what it means for [00:46:00] placemaking as a conversation, really running that risk of anchoring something to that, spectacle, for lack of better words without having it be a permanent thing that people can go to every day. Talk. Talk to us about your thoughts around this events placemaking piece. 'cause it's,
Emily Craven: Yeah, important. I think that, you know what really kind of comes clear through as we spoke to Claire, was that Vancouver rights as a people. Seem to like new and they seem to like Instagramable moments.
Emily Craven: And so it is really easy to fall into a trap of events, make things new because they're temporary. We can tweak events and therefore that allows us to have a spectacle. But as you say, if you don't anchor spectacle with something more permanent, then. You just, you run your [00:47:00] team ragged, right? Like events cannot be the, the only vibrancy strategy.
Emily Craven: And that, the interesting thing is, is that we have had this second conversation with our second Claire, Claire Leonard. And so we know that there are different ways that they are filling in the gaps around events. But if I just took this single conversation with Claire. I would come away thinking that the only thing that Vancouver focuses on is events and like, and, and maybe they're thinking of doing like a, a public art strategy, but like it's the heavy focus on the, the Grandville block block party still makes that vibrancy really episodic.
Emily Craven: It's, it's, it's that up and down of the, of the, of the rollercoaster that, yes, consistency is key, but if people are only in there when events run, then that's still a [00:48:00] problem,
Tim Souza: You know? So. So then what's your message to cities who, their event, I mean their placemaking is this event focused strategy?
Emily Craven: Yeah, I'm, it's. Again, it's, it's easy to fall into that. As I say, it's easy to fall into that pattern of events. Mean vibrancy. Events mean, events mean new and social media interest, but they've, they're, you've gotta look at, short term, medium term, long term, right? You need all three of those to make a city vibrant.
Emily Craven: And events are not necessarily. All there is to placemaking. They are the first pillar of placemaking, but they are not the complete package. And so you need to properly generate those third spaces where people will hang out automatically without the event to activate them. But then you [00:49:00] also need something for people to.
Emily Craven: Outside of events in a guided way. Right? But that's like locals and tourists because you cannot always trust that tourism is going to be there because COVID might happen because, a administration of a very large company. Puts a bunch of tariffs in place and people don't want to travel. Not naming any names here, but it means that a whole bunch of domestic tourism ends up happening.
Emily Craven: It means that a whole bunch of staycations end up happening and so the things that fill your events, need to be there as well. Spaces. Events and then the connective tissue between those events to smooth out those up and down pieces.
Emily Craven: So what I would say to a team that is in that event space, right, is to take a step back and to look at.
Emily Craven: Do I have enough of those third spaces? If I don't, how do I put those in place and, what can I take from the events that I am already doing that could exist beyond that event? Right? Because you don't necessarily need to. Make a whole new thing to be in between events. You can leverage the events that you are already doing to leave things in place after that event comes out.
Emily Craven: And so that's what I would say. Take that step back. Look at what can what, how can you leverage the events that you [00:51:00] have to do fillers, and then how can you maybe increase the public spaces and the places that people want to linger because you need those three 10 poles for a truly vibrant city that appeals to locals and tourists like,
Tim Souza: yeah.
Tim Souza: I think that that leads me to kind of my follow up reflection and kind of one of my own as well as you're, as I hear your critique on that, I think what you're, what I'm really hearing is something that. It's obvious to, to maybe us because we do this every day as a part of Story City and, and it's that connective tissue piece, those gaps, the gap fill in that you were just mentioning, like when the music stops, who's still downtown.
Tim Souza: Right. And I think that that's the question that we ask as we start saying, Hey, you know, places are great. Events are great. We're, we're challenging people at Story City to take that next step of building those connective tissues. And we know that some groups. Some cities only have their events, so they're not ready to build those connective [00:52:00] tissues yet.
Tim Souza: Right. They're not ready to work with us in that regard. And I think
Emily Craven: You are right. You're right. It's a, it's a, if you do not own the narrative between events
Tim Souza: mm-hmm.
Emily Craven: Someone else will take that narrative over.
Tim Souza: Right,
Emily Craven: right. Like, if you do not own it. Then someone else will come in to fill that gap.
Emily Craven: And that might be issues within the city that might be, you know, systemic issues of all sorts of things of, of homelessness, of, of all, of, you know, of, safety of all of those kind of things. And, and media's reporting of crime. And that's the narrative that will take over if you do not take control of the narrative yourself between events.
Tim Souza: And I think that's something that's super cool that they're, the city of Vancouver is doing, that we'll hear a little bit more about next week is how they're taking control of that narrative. But I think that one of the things that's really cool to Claire spoke about this week, was really how, [00:53:00] one of the ways that they kind of touch that, the.
Tim Souza: I guess I think of it like the string that the fates are tying, like from Hercules, right? Like before they cut it. Like the, one of those strings that that that is being grabbed is in, in that 90 block space is connecting commerce and like cultural belonging, right? Like they are doing what they can to like, basically they have all of those, those businesses, they have all of that art that's already in the city.
Tim Souza: And I think that focusing on that reinviting. Rather than that revitalization, right? They're not fixing the city. There's nothing that needs to be done to quote unquote fix the city to, in this, following this conversation. But that idea of going, calling back to that, you know, they're inviting not just the residents of downtown Vancouver.
Tim Souza: They're inviting the business owners of downtown Vancouver. They're inviting the event organizers in downtown Vancouver, the nonprofits into their space. As a part [00:54:00] of that continuity building. Now I have some comments on how they're doing that, but I think that at the end of the day, they are starting to weave some of those threads, in this conversation.
Tim Souza: And we know that for next week's conversation, they weave more into, it looks more like a tapestry, but for cities that only have that thread, it's kind of a challenge to say, how do we get this bid to talk to the city to talk to? The community, how do you get to build
Emily Craven: those kind of public private partnerships, to, to weave that thread, as you say.
Emily Craven: But also, you know, as part of taking that step back from events, you, you get that, that bigger view of what is the long term community infrastructure
Tim Souza: Mm.
Emily Craven: To mitigate that risk. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I think one of my questions, other people don't fill in that cultural continuity, and I think that Claire number two, 2.0
Tim Souza: mm-hmm.[00:55:00]
Emily Craven: Upgraded to Claire. No, that's not it. The, they, they, they were the Claires together, the Claire Power combined. That's right. I think does a good job of filling in those gaps. So I don't, I don't want to, you know. This, episode Surface Up first surfaces up some really great things that the city of Vancouver is doing and that cities that do have these wonderful temp pole events are doing now.
Emily Craven: But it also shows what those potential gaps are and it really leads us into, the beautiful conversation you will hear with. Claire Leonard, that really fills in some of those gaps that we have seen in this first episode and the questions that came out of this first conversation.
Tim Souza: Yeah. One of the questions I'm interested in seeing a little bit more of, is really just the fact that this is a, a downtown BIA.[00:56:00]
Tim Souza: This isn't the city doing all of this work. Right. And so like the ability to balance, like where does, where do the roles and responsibilities start and end when you have a business improvement district or association that is. Tasked in, its in the, in its title with making sure that the businesses in within its district are served and have a consistent flow of patrons, right?
Tim Souza: Mm-hmm. Near, like through, through them, and continually grow those businesses. Whereas the city is chartered for the people, right. And everybody who lives there, like corporate people and individuals mm-hmm. And organizations. And it's
Emily Craven: interesting that the public art strategy is a result. Four central, downtown Vancouver resides in the BIA.
Emily Craven: When you look at it in that delineated way
Tim Souza: with that, with that lens. And I think that like, kind of digging in a little bit more, it's the idea that like, that therefore means that if we want [00:57:00] our budget for next year, the businesses have to be happy. At the end of the day, everybody's voice matters, but the voice that is going to hold or carry the most weight.
Tim Souza: Is going to be those businesses that give revenue to the organization that is funding all of this.
Emily Craven: Yeah, and, and I flip flop about whether or not like public art should live within Citi versus within A BIA. But I think that something that has become a reoccurring threat in this season in particular is that because it resides within the BIA, it is an acknowledgement of the economic value.
Emily Craven: Public art and attraction of visitation, and then the building of economics and economic development in downtown, which I think is an important step for any city to make.
Tim Souza: Yeah, and I think that one of the reasons we didn't hear Claire talk about that in this episode is that downtown Vancouver is full of art, right?
Tim Souza: They've already done the [00:58:00] work to beautify this space, and so they're not, they don't have a beautification campaign. They've been, they have a let's activate the people campaign. But again, that art was paid for and has the perspective of drawing business. And so like, I don't know, should it sit? Where should it sit in?
Tim Souza: I think that that's a great question for everybody here to, to leave and wherever you can leave your comments. But like, where should the funding for art belong? In this space, and who should be empowering it? My goal, my thought would be everybody. Art is for everybody. It is cultural. It bonds us in a way that language limits.
Tim Souza: But I think that, at the tail end of it, someone's gotta pay for it and someone's gotta maintain pay to maintain it.
Emily Craven: So next week friends, we are gonna be staying in Vancouver this time, as we said with Claire Leonard, who is stepping into Claire Warner's role with dignity and Grace. And so together [00:59:00] we all ask, how do you build a framework beyond events that sustains joy and safety and connection?
Emily Craven: And this is gonna be part two of our downtown van story. Tune in for the next episode. Until then, you next week. Bye.
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