March 10, 2026
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Vibrant Spaces is back for Season 2! In this podcast we connect with the people and places doing big things to bring their cities and towns to life. Tune in weekly for new episodes and new insights!
In this episode we focus on Baltimore, Maryland where we sit down with our guest Eric Souza, to discuss how his organization is leveraging the community of Midtown to take down historic barriers and build opportunities for the community.
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Eric is the past President for Midtown Baltimore, which is a neighbourhood advocacy and improvement program striving to provide consistent services in order to ensure a clean, green and safe community. Eric walks us through the benefits of a management authority in a small city like Baltimore and how it differs from other civic authorities. We dive into how the city of Baltimore is confronting its difficult history through art, and what initiatives they are planning to leverage art and artists to bring safe access to services to the community. By using art as infrastructure, Midtown Baltimore is able to bring safety and security to their historic neighbourhood.
This episode explores:
CONNECT WITH OUR HOSTS: Emily Craven | Tim Souza
ABOUT OUR GUEST
ERIC SOUZA - President, Midtown Baltimore (at the time of recording)- Proven executive level leader of diverse public and private organizations with initiatives that include board & committee management, capital fundraising, budget and operations planning, economic development, communications strategy, technology implementation, program management, and project management. Skilled at uniting stakeholders by cultivating and managing reciprocally beneficial relationships between private, government, and community-based partners.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:
Emily Craven: Welcome to another episode of Vibrant Spaces. Hi, Tim. Good to see you.
Tim Souza: Good to see you. Em. This is super fun. I'm so excited about today's conversation.
Emily Craven: Yeah, Eric Sousa is like a powerhouse, but mind you, this is the third time we've been to Baltimore across seasons. And you can tell that we really like the people and what they are doing.
Emily Craven: They are doing some amazing things. It's, really,
Tim Souza: I mean, I think Baltimore just creates cool people.
Tim Souza: It does it, it attracts, I should say. It attracts and creates, like, it brings people back to itself. And then like sends them out to go become experts. Like Tanya [00:01:00] as an example, she went to New York, she built her herself, and then she came back and was like, Hey, I'm bringing New York back to Baltimore.
Tim Souza: You know, and it's this, that's the vibes that I feel like you get in Baltimore. People grown, raised amazing, went out, came back more amazing. And then they're equipping people locally, like as an incubator to, to grow that next generation. Amazing.
Emily Craven: Yeah. But, but we're not, we're not just coming back to hear the same things.
Emily Craven: Are we? No. In this episode we are really talking about redefining public safety through activation, which is so exciting.
Tim Souza: Yeah. I think one of the most fascinating things about the city of Baltimore and specifically Midtown and we're gonna touch on it in the episode, I think Eric really, edifies the entire. Challenge that they face as a city. But on from a 40,000 foot, 80,000 foot perspective, they're dealing with the history of redlining, the history of like slavery.
Tim Souza: This is a 250 [00:02:00] years of pain that Baltimore is choosing art to address the pain with art as a, you know, multilinguistic way of communicating. We communicate visually. We communicate through performance. We communicate emotions via art in a way that, often we get bogged down with logic when it comes to addressing, like having had a slave market down the street that then became like an impoverished quarter, right?
Tim Souza: For, the most. Equitable language, to, now bridging that wealth in the city and access to amenities like performing art centers like, education with and acro literally across the a, a rift to the other side, which has economic impoverishment. And [00:03:00] that is, of course affects race. It affects culture.
Tim Souza: It was intentional and it and redlining started in Baltimore and then spread across the country. So they not only have a local communal pain, but it was a local communal pain that was then expatriated to every other community in the US for a period of time. And so they have now looking at that, gone to their community and brought their community back to figure out which parts of that pain need to be addressed so that they can build better infrastructure and set a better tone.
Tim Souza: For our cities to follow healing from the pain that was caused, that started in Baltimore,
Emily Craven: and, and not necessarily by doing it through more policing, but through this kind of joyful visibility. Right, right. Like, yeah.
Tim Souza: Our performance culture. Yeah.
Emily Craven: And, and as Tonya said, like there's not necessarily a cultural plan that exists in Baltimore yet, like that's one of her main things that she really wanted to dig into.
Emily Craven: But I think what I find really interesting is how this management authority worked, right? This is the first time I had hit a management authority, which is different from a [00:04:00] bid, right? It allows the community to. Invest and still thrive even though this cultural plan doesn't necessarily exist. And so I think that, you know, obviously you'll hear lots of callbacks to kind of the first season when we were speaking to, to, to Tanya in Baltimore about building that conversation of safety as a feeling art after dark, using street artists to build that safety using street artists as a graffiti task force.
Emily Craven: So you'll, you'll definitely hear of compliments from those previous, those previous kind of Baltimore seasons. But I think that also, ah. This was kind of like what the city of, of Philly, like what Raheem was talking about, what they're wanting to be better at, right? Is using the infrastructure that is currently dividing their neighborhoods from downtown.
Emily Craven: And not making that like an easy corridor is turning that into feed alliance, using the infrastructure as feed alliance to build that filling of safety for all people. And even Tampa was doing that, building those feed Alliance. And so I love how. In this one, we get to hear more about that [00:05:00] infrastructure that used to divide and now connects and, and, and how they are reducing the red tape to do that with their structures, their policies.
Tim Souza: And I think that's what makes talking to Eric so interesting. And I know that you weren't a part of that conversation, but one of the things I loved about the talk, I know you'll get to, you'll get to respond afterwards. I'm excited. But he really is coming from like a systems builder designed for the community engagement perspective.
Tim Souza: Hmm. Right. You can hear how much he cares about why people aren't coming back to that midtown space. And he's not just trying to lure them, but embolden and empower them. And I think that it comes, I know it, it really does take this like. Mega lens to say, how are humans flowing through a space? Where are they not flowing through a space?
Tim Souza: What are those blockers? And once they flow through the space, you know, do they know what to expect? And, how can they build for themselves once they get there? And that, that lens, I think was what makes this conversation super [00:06:00] exciting. Yeah. And, and if
Emily Craven: You look at Tulsa, it was like, Tulsa was like storytelling with people.
Tim Souza: Mm-hmm.
Emily Craven: This is storytelling with. Places like, like concrete, concrete and art, right? And, both of those have their merits and their activations. Obviously the concrete and art can't travel the country letting people know how Baltimore is changing in the way that Tulsa can. And I think a city who's looking to emulate the best parts of other cities might look like a combination.
Emily Craven: These types of things and like passive and digital to, to really like make a bang. So I'd like to introduce us to our guest today, Eric Souza. He is now the past president of Midtown Baltimore, but he's still in Baltimore doing amazing work. He is a proven executive level leader of. A very diverse public and private organization.
Emily Craven: He's been in many of them for the last 20 years within [00:07:00] Baltimore for initiatives that have included, you know, board and committee management, capital fundraising, budgets and operation planning, like economic development, communication strategy, like tech implementation. His skills are off the charts, and so,
Emily Craven: I think his biggest call though to his career is that uniting of stakeholders by cultivating and managing is reciprocally beneficial.
Tim Souza: Relationships for everyone. Yeah.
Emily Craven: Between private, between government, between community based partners, recognizing that like when they all work together in something like a municipal authority, which doesn't just pull money out of businesses, it pulls it from residential and all of those kinds of things.
Emily Craven: That, that it gives you a way of, of, of being able to involve community. And so I'm really excited for you guys to hear all of the wisdom from Eric today.
Tim Souza: [00:08:00] Hey Eric. Welcome to the Story City Vibrant Spaces podcast. We're super excited to have you today. For everybody else, this is Eric Souza, and I am excited to have him in.
Tim Souza: Yes, we do share a last name. We do, we did do some like genealogy and figured out that somewhere back a few generations, maybe a millennia, we had a, we had a cousin. So, that's who we've got going on today is Eric Souza out of Midtown Baltimore. Eric, we're super excited to have you. Thank you for joining us.
Eric Souza: Yeah, great to be here. Thanks so much, Tim.
Tim Souza: Yeah. So as kind of we get started, my understanding is that you moved to Baltimore in 2004, correct? Yeah. 2004. Yeah. So what drew you to Baltimore, Maryland? Out of all the places in the universe and you know, what has kept you there?
Eric Souza: Yeah. Well, I would say, I think, you know, what drew me here to Baltimore essentially was family.
Eric Souza: [00:09:00] I was down in Georgia actually for about six years and was looking to relocate, kind of migrate my way out of the south. I was born and raised in Virginia Beach. Had a ton of family in the DC Baltimore area. And I ended up landing in Baltimore. 'cause I came up to visit my cousin a bunch, while I was getting ready to make a transition.
Eric Souza: And, you know, like art brought me to Baltimore. I came here, I actually graduated with my culinary arts degree, so I have a bachelor's of science degree and professional cooking and baking and culinary management. And, so I landed here, there was a culinary school. It was between here and, you know, New York.
Eric Souza: Or Chicago. I was planning on going to New York or Chicago and ended up coming here to hang out with my cousin a bunch and fell in love with Baltimore because it is a, as they call it, a charm city, of, you know, epic proportions. It's a, small city. It's got like this [00:10:00] small town feel to it. Tons of creative juice flowing everywhere, whether it be from music, a little known fact about Baltimore Rolling Stone Magazine back in 2019.
Eric Souza: Nabbed us as the indie recording. Capital of the country, which I thought was interesting because, you know, you think of Nashville and stuff like that. But just goes to speak kind of like the hidden gem that Baltimore really has in regards to the creative space. So I came here because my cousin got me to come here.
Eric Souza: What kept me here? I was again, came, finished school and was planning to go to a big city, right? I wanted to go to New York, and I wanted to go to Chicago. I guess Destiny had that differently for me. I met my wife in a restaurant, she was getting her master's degree and happened to be the cute bartender that was working at the restaurant that I was smitten with.
Eric Souza: And although she didn't have any time for me for the first, like four to five months. I was in Baltimore. An opportunity popped up for me to connect with her and we started dating, and then after I got outta [00:11:00] school, decided to r put down some roots in Baltimore. And I guess the rest is history.
Eric Souza: I live in Baltimore City. I have two beautiful daughters, and I'm a Baltimore City resident for the better. Half of now, I guess 20 years, right? 2004. So, yeah. Yeah, I've lived in Baltimore longer than I've lived anywhere else in my entire life, so this is truly home, that's for sure.
Tim Souza: That's awesome. And, and I think it's beautiful that, you know, you have that classic, came here for school and was hanging out with, you know, family met the girl, stayed, built the family, like in a really cool artistic space, that you then kind of helped build up.
Tim Souza: And so before we jump into all of that, what is, I guess you've now lived in Baltimore for 20 years, so what is your. Favorite spot. What, in Baltimore, like if you were to name one place that, you know, speaks to you beyond all others, what would, what would that be in the city of B? If I was to visit and you're like, Tim, you gotta visit here, it's super special. Why?
Eric Souza: Right.
Tim Souza: Yeah. Yeah.
Eric Souza: Well, you know, [00:12:00] not to be corny, but I would say like actually where I work, which is actually where I live with my wife, before we ended up having kids and moving elsewhere. Sure. But Midtown is definitely where it's at. The historic nature of the buildings. You know, we have a Penn Station Terminus, which is over 120 530 years old, about a block and a half away from our office.
Eric Souza: Micah University, is located just a few blocks away. We've got the Baltimore Symphony, orchestra, which is two blocks away from us, the Lyric Performance Howell, which is about a block and a half away from US Station North, which is the first arts district in Baltimore. is located about three to four blocks away from us to the north.
Eric Souza: And then you've got this amazing array of all kinds of cool restaurants, that are like, you know, embedded in these old brownstone homes. Some of the restaurants you have to kind of go down into the basement, to get to. So, you know, it's got this like, eclectic mix of like, international cuisine.[00:13:00]
Eric Souza: And just a real opportunity when I think of a city. and I think of those artistic and cultural offerings. That are accompanied with food and walkability and all of that, like Midtown is that spot. So, I don't live in Midtown. I live in Southern Baltimore and probably a lot of people would prop up the inner harbor.
Eric Souza: And you know, I I, I love the inner harbor and all that it offers, but I think for an authentic, like real experience of what Baltimore is, I think Midtowns kind of close to you, that real city vibe feel that you can get. So I'd say you'd have to visit my district.
Tim Souza: I love that. Well, I was gonna say, it sounds like what I need to do to have that full experience is really come work remotely from Baltimore. Yeah, absolutely. From Midtown specifically. So I have that, that Baltimore vibe is what you're recommending. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Perfect. So, and, and as we talk about all these cool things that you're doing in, in the City, I'm super excited to talk to you about how, you know, you're leveraging artists and the systems and the efforts [00:14:00] of like Midtown.
Tim Souza: That you've just so beautifully wrapped up with a cent a bow. You know, and specifically how, like you, as you know, president of the Midtown Community Benefits District, which is a management authority. You know, how you are working to take down historic barriers that have faced, you know, the Midtown community, but also leveraging them and building this opportunity for the community to have.
Tim Souza: That likes a unique vibrancy and keeps pace with other parts of the city. Yeah. So being a vibrancy podcast, I'd love to dive into all of that. But before we kind of start, could you quickly, you know, describe to us how the Midtowns Management Authority works and how it's like different to other structures we might see in the city IE like a city agency or a business improvement district and bid, you know, especially in context for our, our audience who are aware of.
Tim Souza: You know, what Downtown Rise is doing and the work that the mayor's office is doing. Can you kind of put the piece that you are into that puzzle for us?
Eric Souza: Yeah, for sure. [00:15:00] So, you know, I think interestingly, management authorities by definition have all of these like small, like cluster buckets at fall, within, like a total catch of what a management authority is.
Eric Souza: So from an ordinance perspective, downtown partnership, which is a Baltimore based bid. Waterfront Partnership, which is a Baltimore based bid, all serve, commercial interest. So there, all of the stakeholders that are composed in those organizations that pay the Surtax are all commercial based groups.
Eric Souza: Alright, that makes sense.
Eric Souza: You know, so what's interesting about Midtown is we are a community benefits district and community benefits district, or a special benefits district. Mm-hmm. We're one of two management authorities. There's six of them in Baltimore City now we're, two of those six are actually positioned to take care of like communities in regards to neighborhoods.
Eric Souza: They have a residential component, so from a downtown partnership group, a waterfront partnership group. And the [00:16:00] only reason I bring those up is 'cause you mentioned the rise. Program, which is amazing, right? It's ingesting art right into the core business district of Baltimore City. The Waterfront partnership handling the Inner Harbor.
Eric Souza: They've got wraps around the electrical boxes they have Cool, like art up on the mall and stuff like that. It's very visitor and tour space, which we are. But like I said, we have this component of like, community that's much different and it's really what sets us apart from these other management authorities.
Eric Souza: And I think it's really kind of like our secret sauce. It's the, you know, the magic Harry Potter wand that we hold in our hand that these other groups don't have. So, you know, a community focused, community driven management authority, has a little bit different of a strategic path than some of the commercial based ones do.
Eric Souza: Right? Commercial based like bids. Service those tourists, they service the business clientele. There might be some residential components that live in the Highrises. But you know, [00:17:00] we are the proud recipients of a ton of park space, right? So when you think of a neighborhood, we are situated within these four like key neighborhoods in Baltimore.
Eric Souza: That'd be, shout out to Mount Vernon Belvedere, Charles North, which is where the station North Arts district is. Madison Park and Bolton Hill. And those communities like, you know, that they house not only residents or so think, we've got doctors in Bolton Hill that work at Johns Hopkins University.
Eric Souza: We also have students that go to Micah, which is the art school, or go to the University of Baltimore, which is located in our district as well. You have artists that live throughout the Charles North Station, north area. Mount Vernon is a home of an eclectic mix of all kinds of folks. So from, you know, residents that work at Hopkins University.
Eric Souza: To students, to people that teach at Peabody University, which is in our community. It's just like an eclectic mix and a lot of, there's a lot of a large renter base in Mount Vernon as well. So you know, it's really listening to the voice of the [00:18:00] community and trying to play to those our community strengths that help us to determine the strategic programming that we put in place.
Eric Souza: So really bringing programmatic approaches that speak to our residents, and help to. You know, enhance the life that they get to experience in living in the city. And you know, the caveat on that is, that we also get to like, provide tremendous benefit to the visitors and to the business folks that come through the district as well.
Eric Souza: But it's all centered on what our residents are really looking for. So when we look to increase public space through enhancing cultural opportunities when we look to provide opportunities in like dirty forgotten alleyways through art opportunities. So really taking back these alley spaces and providing an artistic opportunity to create communal gathering opportunities and an affinity and care for these spaces that, you know, historically maybe been forgotten.
Eric Souza: Are really the ways that we outstand a lot of the programs that we have. So, it's not a bunch of folks that [00:19:00] work at, the large key financial institutions. And, you know, all the attractions down around the inner harbor that are sitting around a table making decisions are boards composed of these like key residential neighborhood associations and voices that really help to steer what's in the best interest of their communities.
Eric Souza: Interesting. So, yeah, so it's, it gives us kind of, like I said, I feel like it's the secret sauce that we get to cook with up here that might be a little different than some of those other spaces.
Tim Souza: Perfect. And yeah, I think that this, you know, that's brilliant and I love how it's a community based approach and I think everything that I've learned about Baltimore is that there's definitely that collaborative, flare to so many of the initiatives that you guys take on.
Tim Souza: Yeah. And as so as you do, maybe I can, this might be a dirty question or maybe a dumb question on my end, but, asking about your secret sauce, how does, how is that funded? How is the structure provided for just quickly for our audience to understand the difference? Because obviously, bids for those business improvement districts are funded with the levee on [00:20:00] the businesses that, you know, they are.
Tim Souza: That's a tax. Yeah. Yeah. It's like an extra tax for the improvement of those areas. How is, you know, the, your community benefits, district funded, like, is that coming?
Eric Souza: So because we're a management authority by ordinance, we do collect a surtax per $100 of assessed value.
Tim Souza: Okay.
Eric Souza: On each and every one of our properties.
Eric Souza: So there's a surtax residential and commercial.
Eric Souza: And that surtax goes into providing all the operational stuff, so no matter where you look across the country. Mm-hmm. And just a quick tip that, I won't spend too much time on this, but like over in Europe, management authorities are all over the place, right?
Eric Souza: So like, think Spain, think England, think all these spots, each neighborhood has their own little group that does the supplemental stuff that city agencies don't get an opportunity to take care of. Mm-hmm. But it's that supplemental, that supplemental provision, right? So. Our operational base, which is key in not only our organization, but all of these, there's a clean, there's a green, there's a safe [00:21:00] component that are a part of these management authorities, and they're providing the supplemental services to what the key essential services that the city provide.
Eric Souza: So our surtax dollars that are levying on these properties are brought in to support the operational dealings that we have. What's interesting about where we grab all these additional opportunities, right? Like we're throwing murals up on bridges on all walls and talking about putting sculptures and parks and working with the Symphony Orchestra to provide amenities and additional enhancements in parks so they can get outside and play free for the communities that they like lit like that they're in, right?
Eric Souza: Mm-hmm. All of that's provided by grants. It's all provided by additional funding that we have to go out and what I like to talk to my team about all the time, which is hunt. So, you know, the CERTEX dollars provide the operational support, and then we go out and figure out the ways to drum up the money to provide all the additional things that the communities are looking for, above and beyond what they want operationally.
Eric Souza: And I think [00:22:00] what's really unique about us and what we've found across the country that can be challenging is, is when artistic opportunities are provided, albeit murals or sculptures and all these other things. There's always this maintenance opportunity, right? There's always this like opportunity on the back end of how this thing is taken care of, right?
Eric Souza: There's an asset put in this community, like how is it being watched over? And a lot of times you'll see graffiti go up over a beautiful mural, or there's trash at the base of a mural all throughout a park. And what's interesting about our group is 'cause we're already providing these maintenance services, this clean and this green and this safe opportunity.
Eric Souza: When we put these assets into our district, we're actually able to take care of them on the back end because we're already there taking care of them. Right? So like we're already removing graffiti in our district. So if you put a mural up. Our graffiti team knows that if something goes up on the mural, we need to go out and we need to remove the graffiti, and we have these connections with artists come back and touch things up.
Eric Souza: So it's just us being able to provide that additional support for the creative community that gets to play and do the things they do on [00:23:00] our district, us getting the opportunity to provide the wraparound services for them to really care for the asset that they provide to the community on the front end.
Tim Souza: See, that's fascinating. So what you would recommend then to anybody who's looking to use a management authority as a solution is making sure that they definitely have that operational structure in place before they start to play in the bucket.
Eric Souza: It's, it's everything. And I think like, and so for communities, for cities, that want vibrant public spaces.
Eric Souza: What is forgotten many times is the maintenance upkeeping care for those, like, it's easy to dream big and draw up pretty pictures and talk about how cool stuff's gonna be, and then put some, you know, really neat public space into place. But like, is that space clean? Is it safe? Right. And those, those, those key components are gonna provide the vitality of that space.
Eric Souza: And like if a place is not deemed safe, if it's not deemed clean, no matter how pretty it is, no matter how great it is, people aren't gonna visit,
Tim Souza: Right. [00:24:00] Exactly. People, people don't use that stuff. They absolutely need it to be, especially the safety piece. People need to feel like they can step into it and take their kids to walk there in the evening, you know?
Tim Souza: Yeah, totally.
Eric Souza: Denver, Colorado has a really unique model that I was fascinated with. I went out there for a conference.
Eric Souza: And what I learned was that legislatively they were able to secure maintenance funding for all of these public spaces that they have.
Tim Souza: Oh, interesting.
Eric Souza: And the capital projects weren't allowed to siphon off of 'em.
Eric Souza: So like a lot of times what happens is, if you have these, you have maintenance budgets built into the city, like into these municipality budgets. But then as things come up right, I need to pave a road or we need to get some extra money to build that thing that we said we were gonna build. They really draw down on the maintenance budgets.
Eric Souza: And so you lose the operational aspects that were built in. So like people put their hand over their heart, they have the best intentions in place. Mm-hmm. But it's the easiest thing to siphon off [00:25:00] of. Right. It's kind of like music programs and art programs getting ripped outta schools because like, we gotta be able to like other stuff.
Eric Souza: Right, right. So, you know, I think Denver kind of cracked the nut. That was the first thing I noticed when I was out there. I was like, oh my gosh, our parks are beautiful and clean and well taken care of. And as I talked to some of the folks, with their recreation and parks division, I quickly learned that like, yeah, no, legislatively we have this money that is secure so we can go out and protect the asset, without having to worry about it, money getting stripped out of it.
Eric Souza: So, I'd say much like with the management authority, that's what's so important. It's really having a dedicated revenue stream, that's gonna go towards providing those operational supportive pieces.
Tim Souza: Awesome. And so let's, so let's then talk a little bit about the community that you serve. I'd love to know, I know that we, in our prior conversations, you were talking about how it's, it has a, a disparate history.
Tim Souza: It has this kind of, it's a, you are doing projects to bridge [00:26:00] these different neighborhoods that you've mentioned previously. And so can you tell us a little bit about, about the community, about the history of the area in Baltimore, kind of where it's been versus where it is now, and then. We can jump into where you guys are taking it, kind of moving.
Tim Souza: And I think your solutions are great and I'd love to give you a chance to just kinda talk about, you know, the background of the, the environment that you are constructing in.
Eric Souza: So I think, you know. Firstly, like Baltimore City's history, I feel like it's, it's pretty well known. So I'll give some high level pieces.
Eric Souza: We’re pretty well known for is, we are essentially, we're a historic city, right? There are things that occurred in Baltimore that are just facts that aren't pretty, you know, there were, there were slave blocks down on Pratt Street, which is right near where the inner harbor, that main water piece lies.
Eric Souza: And like there, so there was like this atrocious past, right? Redlining, which is, you know, the, essentially like a cornerstone of disinvestment for [00:27:00] communities of color and unequal lending, pro processes and whatnot. They were born in Baltimore. The blueprint was here, like we did it first legislatively, and then the rest of the country picked that up.
Eric Souza: And unfortunately put that into place. So whether it was St. Louis or Louisiana, like legislatively, we figured out how to like disinvest in communities first, which aren't like
Tim Souza: Great
Eric Souza: things., but things, right. That's not something
Tim Souza: That you're exactly, you know, waving a banner I'm proud of.
Eric Souza: No, not at all.
Eric Souza: But I think like addressing those things head on and being intentional, about, you know, acknowledging the past and trying to provide opportunities to move forward. In ways that are impactful, not just through words, but actually through actions. There are things that we can do, just me as a human, I feel like, you know, from a societal perspective, like us being able to address those and be genuine and authentic and have those conversations.
Eric Souza: So think community engagement, like what does that look like? Talking to communities, talking about the things that have happened [00:28:00] in the past, figuring out how, like maybe through a piece of art, whether that be sculpture, art, or whatever it might be, be able to address this like historical atrocity.
Eric Souza: Now you're bridging gaps and bringing people into spaces too that have historically been left out of these spaces or not wanted in these spaces, bringing them into those spaces and engaging from a communal perspective in meaningful ways. So, you know, in our district alone, I spoke to the redlining piece that was born in Midtown.
Eric Souza: We have eight blocks of linear park that are amazing. They go from Dolphin Street up to North Avenue along Utah Street, and Utah Street is where the red line is. Like originally occurred and it, you know, unfortunately it wasn't even set up, you know, in a way to discredit or keep communities of color out.
Eric Souza: It actually was an answer to folks trying to keep key Jewish Community members out of spaces in Bolton Hills. So it started off right, not even with communities of color. It [00:29:00] started off with the, the desire to Jewish, Jewish families out, and then, hey, like if we're keeping Jewish families out, we wanna keep families of color out as well.
Eric Souza: So we were doing a lot of unique things, like even in that park space along Utah. We're getting, you know, I, I spoke to grants and grants being the way that we are able to support a lot of the work that we do. Mm-hmm. So, grabbing Maryland, state art council grant to just do an engagement session.
Eric Souza: So we got $10,000 this year, to host community engagement sessions to bring these two historically divided communities together, which are in Bolton Hill and Madison Park, and then the Marble Hill community as well, bringing them to the table. And let's talk about desired artwork and. Let's put it out there.
Eric Souza: Do we wanna like, address some of this historic, stuff that we know about, like what's the desire of the community to see art and culture in these public spaces?
Tim Souza: See, I think that's fascinating and I think I, the curiosity I have for you is why, I know that you come from an and i creative background, but why artists then as a solution to, to be bridging these spaces?[00:30:00]
Tim Souza: Why bring in that, you know, public art as a, because you, it's been imbued in, in some of the, the descriptions of what you talked about when you talked about the community and moving forward. You're saying we're moving forward via art as a cultural healing process together, right? So talk to why artists, why art in the first place?
Eric Souza: That's the easiest question you've asked Tim. And the answer is, the answer is, is that art, right? Mm-hmm. Art is the love language that I, I, I honestly believe that. And I believe that art brings people together of all different backgrounds, whether that be socioeconomic, whether that be ethic. Mm-hmm. I think that, you know, it, it is, it is the language that everybody speaks together.
Eric Souza: And whether that's through music, whether that's through visual art, whether that's through culinary art, people come together, you know, around arts and culture. They participate uniquely, I believe, in public spaces through historically. Participate in those types of opportunities together. So communities that have been historically divided, for [00:31:00] example, came to hang out in this little place called Woodstock, New York at a giant concert, right?
Eric Souza: Mm-hmm. And that is like something that's historic, that's documented and like when we look about the brain together of people and that communal like nature of what happened there, that was all done through music. You know, I mean, societies back in Greco Roman times used to come together to listen to philoso, philosophers or.
Eric Souza: Go and watch plays and theatrical performances together. I know there was division back there, a little different than there is now, but it was bringing people together to some degree that maybe wouldn't have hung out before, but they're all there to participate in this theatrical performance.
Eric Souza: I just, I think it's a love language that's spoken by everybody and I don't think it matters what color you are or how much money you have in your pocket. Like people love to get together in public spaces and participate and what they're there to participate in, which is the art. And the added benefit is, we start to get to know each other a little bit better.
Eric Souza: And [00:32:00] I think it helps to really establish the fact that we're all a lot less different than we think we are. We are different, and those differences need to be celebrated. We can celebrate those differences through arts and culture. But at the end of the day, arts and culture are really kind of like the beaming light that show all of us.
Eric Souza: That we're not much different than one another. Like we all love that music or we all love that art, or we all love that play. We're all coming together to participate and celebrate. Mm-hmm. Something that's very, very communal in my opinion.
Tim Souza: I love that. And very human as well. Yeah. Right. Like it really is, you're asking us to get in touch with the things that make us feel versus the things that we like to think and argue about.
Tim Souza: So I would love to hear a bit more about this love letter that you and Midtown Baltimore are putting together for the world. Then, this, you know, this crafting of these projects and maybe if you could talk to us a little bit about the projects, like some examples of how you are embracing [00:33:00] placemaking art and vibrancy within Midtown.
Tim Souza: In, in, in a physical way. So I know that you, we've talked about branches, we've talked about walls, we've talked about, you know, this fixed Gerald project. I'd love to just kind of begin to open the floor to those pieces. Maybe kind of starting with, how do you kind of tell those community stories, leveraging these projects?
Tim Souza: And you can choose one to
Eric Souza: Yeah, I guess I could lead off with the Falls gateway project. I think, you know, what's interesting about that project is that it is transportation based. And arts and culture based all at the same time.
Eric Souza: Okay.
Eric Souza: So when you're looking to create an opportunity for access, you know, you can look at the data and you can find, specifically we're in Midtown, which means the middle part of town.
Eric Souza: We are literally like in the center of Baltimore City. Okay. And the access opportunities that communities from the West and Northwest. And just for the, you know, the listeners out there, like [00:34:00] the west side of Baltimore, specifically northwest, southwest and west side of Baltimore. It is. You know, much like many cities all across America, Martin Luther King Jr.
Eric Souza: Boulevard is usually not the nicest street. Mm-hmm. And it's the street that usually divides the have and the have-nots in a lot of ways. And I don't care if you go to Detroit or Baltimore or Washington, wherever you go. Unfortunately, MLK seems to be the name of the road that does a lot of that separating.
Eric Souza: So West and Northwest Baltimore, specifically with the Falls Gateway project. The communities that live in the west and northwest portions of Baltimore have some of the highest ridership numbers in regards to multimodal transportation. So think bike, think pedestrian scooter specifically. And the Jones Falls Trail is a unique trail that connects Baltimore County all the way down into the inner harbor, actually in Baltimore.
Eric Souza: So it cuts through our district, leads right near the Penn Station Terminus, and then heads southbound right down to the water's edge. The [00:35:00] trail as it stands right now is pretty scattered and not that desirable. It zigzags back and forth, across lanes of traffic where people can travel at pretty high speeds.
Eric Souza: Mm-hmm. There's access to the Jones Falls itself, which is this amazing water, an asset that we have. And the trail dances along that edge. But it's also polluted. And they built a huge highway over a large portion of it. Wow. Because that was an engineering marvel back in the day. It was to cover up this asset with a ton of concrete, and cars and stuff like that.
Eric Souza: So, fast forward to now with our project, the Falls Gateway Master Plan addresses access and transportation by having an ambitious goal of updating the Jones Falls Trail, specifically as you enter into our district, which. For the listeners out there, there's a couple key underpasses, one of those being a [00:36:00] CSX underpass, that then leads up to the Penn station terminus.
Eric Souza: And that's the stretch of our project. So you're probably about at a mile, a mile and a quarter of trail that we're trying to update by creating additional width. Stormwater management opportunities to protect the asset that we have in the Jones Falls Trail, but more importantly, creating access for these communities in West Baltimore and northwest Baltimore into the middle part of our district.
Eric Souza: So what we wanna do is, we wanna get people into our district to be able to participate in all these cool art opportunities. We give them access to be a block and a half away at that point in time from the art school, university of Baltimore, which is another college, and then those key areas that I told you about in regards to the humanities thing, the Symphony Orchestra Hall, the Lyric Performing Center, so, and on and so forth.
Eric Souza: So really
Tim Souza: leveraging that trail as a connector to bring everybody into this space connector.
Eric Souza: Yes. Providing access,
Tim Souza: providing that access to everybody, to this creative space that you guys have built.
Eric Souza: Yep, absolutely. And that access is provided to communities that have [00:37:00] historically not been invited and have not had the access to these types of amenities.
Eric Souza: And then the opportunity, the second goal, is to be able to provide opportunities of art and culture because as we bring these communities and folks that are using the trail into our spaces, we want to be able to introduce them to all the cool stuff that they're gonna run into when they come into our district.
Eric Souza: So, oh, so like
Tim Souza: as they're coming in on these trails, as they're coming
Eric Souza: in, the underpasses are three key underpasses that we have. We've got a National Endowment of the Arts grant, so we've got a federal grant, we have state money, and then we have additional dollars coming in, from other partners to provide artistic opportunities in the underpasses.
Eric Souza: So I think immersive lighting experiences which create safety and security from a lighting perspective, the use of the trail.
Eric Souza: Clearing out space and really turning like, like key spaces, that have been pretty run down into public use spaces. So I think being able to throw like silent [00:38:00] discos.
Eric Souza: Bringing all kinds of cool food trucks and being able to activate spaces under these underpasses. So not only are people participating in this immersive light experience, but they're able to really nest down in that space and participate in a communal way space, and that positive experience there.
Tim Souza: Bringing joy to a space that maybe before didn't. Was it like a run down?
Eric Souza: Yeah. It was scary. People didn't want to use it. Like, what is this space essentially? That's really cool. And then leading. And as you come into our district, there's other opportunities. So the large mural opportunities, we just put a hundred thousand dollars mural, on Demer, the Maryland Avenue Bridge.
Eric Souza: That project got done in 46 days of painting. 7,264 square feet of mural. That's along what we now deem affectionately the corridor of color, along the Maryland Avenue Bridge, which connects the station North Charles North community that I talked to you about into the Mount Vernon Belvedere community.
Eric Souza: So you have a community that was disinvested in and kind of the [00:39:00] have-nots. I now have this beautiful corridor of color that brings them and provides them access into this space and do. You know, a historic community where all of the ship builders and large owners of industry back in Baltimore's history used to live, is now, you know, then, now there's access to these beautiful opportunities to experience art as a traverse through this area.
Tim Souza: It's interesting 'cause I think that you're, you're using art to really give a facelift to your infrastructure Yeah, sure. To connect these communities. Really, you're making this infrastructure more desirable by. Bringing in that joy, those colors, those, those artists. And I think in part, I think one of the things that you guys are doing that one of the things that you guys are doing, in a very fascinating way, is the way that you are kind of bridging the needs of, of what artists need.
Tim Souza: You're meeting, you're meeting them where they're at to do these projects. Do you think, could you lean in a little bit to that [00:40:00] and describe to us. What, how you support artists because you just said like, you put a hundred thousand dollars onto basically giving this, this bridge, this access way between this, these historically disparate communities.
Tim Souza: Yeah. Right. And so you are, you're obviously funding, you know, through grants, through the funding structure. You're funding these artists, but you're, it sounds like you're taking care of them 'cause that's not a small project. No it's not. I'm assuming one person didn't do it. The entire bridge.
Tim Souza: So how, how does a project like that work for you guys? How do you support artists as a, as a part of this vibrancy solution?
Eric Souza: Yeah, sure. So, I mean that, that bridge specifically, I wanna give a big shout out to our partners at Central Baltimore Partnership. They were able to access a lot of state money for us to, to, to provide the support of that.
Eric Souza: And they also are an overseer of the Station North art community. So very dialed into emerging artists. Which is something that Midtown's really like, making sure that we focus on. So the idea is this Tim, Baltimore City is [00:41:00] full of creative talent.
Eric Souza: We have a ton of really amazing artists that end up going to New York or going to Chicago or going to LA, right?
Eric Souza: Mm-hmm. Not because they want to leave Baltimore. They love Baltimore. They have roots here. But in an effort to really spread their wings and get into the markets they feel like they need to get into, they end up leaving and it's, it, it's leaving before they've ever made it. So they go and they make it somewhere else.
Eric Souza: And then almost kind of claim that as home, right? Like, it's the artist who lived in Baltimore that went to New York, that made it as this famous artist, and now they're like, where are you from? And they're like, I'm from New York. The idea and talked to a friend of mine, Derek Adams, who is an international visionary artist and an amazing human, first and foremost.
Eric Souza: He's a, he is a beautiful soul who gives the best hugs in the world.
Tim Souza: Yeah, most people like that.
Eric Souza: Yeah, absolutely. Derek, you know, Derek and I, when, as, as we talked. You know, he just explained to me kind of his road. He was a kid who grew up in northwest Baltimore, and, and loved [00:42:00] art and ended up going to New York and, and making it.
Eric Souza: And now he teaches in New York and like I said, is his international, you know, I'd say famous like artist. He's doing all kinds of amazing projects, but at one point in time he was an emerging artist in Baltimore. And he loved Baltimore and he didn't necessarily wanna leave Baltimore, but he knew in an effort to gain access to his dreams.
Eric Souza: He had to. So, you know, I, I think through community investment and through community support, specifically, on a focus of emerging artists, what our goal is, is to provide those opportunities for artists here in Baltimore so they don't feel like they have to leave. Like, I want artists to do great work here and be able to feel like they can be sustained as an artist here in Baltimore City.
Eric Souza: And then leave because they wanna leave. They want to go to all these other cool super dope projects, like up in New York and in these other places, but know that they can come home and they still get the love and the respect, and more importantly, the work to be able to do what they want to do in Baltimore.
Eric Souza: And, [00:43:00] so we really focus on emerging artists. The Maryland Avenue Bridge we were discussing. Mm-hmm. Artis, Saba, did that work for us. So she was the key artist. Interesting, but not surprising. She ended up bringing in six to seven other artists throughout that 46 day time period. So we had really cool artists like Jazz Berg, Kelly Walker, there were a ton of really amazing artists.
Eric Souza: I'm, I'm leaving off a number of them and don't, not, I'm not doing so, in spite of it all, but she brought a tremendous team to the table. And we were able to get that project completed in 46 days. And the idea that came from that is, is having that cornerstone project, that's a large project, that's a large commission on a hundred thousand dollars.
Eric Souza: What that gave us access to is that gave us access to all kinds of other, like emerging artists though, because artists talk. So we had these other artists that were right, and then they talked to their friends. And then we did this thing. You spoke about Fitzgerald. We've got this great opportunity.
Eric Souza: It's an economic development arm. [00:44:00] Okay. And we like to get creative with the way that we approach things. So the idea is this, Tim, I'll keep this 80,000 feet up, commercial retail space specifically, right? Kind of causes blight and causes like the, the, the inactivity in these spaces can cause challenges.
Eric Souza: So we thought that what we could do is just create a unique opportunity to engage. Commercial vacancy in a way that is geared towards providing emerging artist opportunities or established artists as well. Opportunities in these, vacant commercial spaces. And what that does is that brings vibrancy, and activity into those spaces, and provides a communal asset as well, because now we can engage with our community.
Eric Souza: So the Fitzgerald is 19,000 square feet of space. So it's huge. Got an elevator. There's all kinds of like. Options to eat and have drinks up top, but big, nice wide open space. We put out an RFP for that. We ended up getting tremendous feedback. We ended up [00:45:00] getting 55 submissions of artists that were.
Eric Souza: You know, working with other artists. So we had local emerging artists that had friends outta Brazil and we were getting these like, you know, proposals to where they're working with an artist from Argentina and another artist from Brazil wanted to work with this individual in Baltimore. So we had this international flair, definitely a large like Latin flair coming out of LA where there was this classic Aztec type of an approach to art.
Eric Souza: And they wanted to work mm-hmm. With art for working in mica. But it was through word of mouth and I think us utilizing the Maryland Avenue Bridge is that cornerstone project and getting the good word out. And then we rolled out the RFP about three months after that project started. We just had a lot of goodwill and a lot of good words in the community.
Eric Souza: They knew that we paid, they knew that they were gonna be supported. They take care of all of the blocking and tackling when it comes to either the, like from city agency perspective. So we pull the permits. We cover all the business end of it. We just want the artists to come in and [00:46:00] do what they do best, which is just provide amazing work.
Eric Souza: And we want to be able to support them on the back end to ensure that they are able to do what they need to do and we can take care of all the blocking and tackling on the back end. So from the RFP perspective, we worked with the real estate company that owned the property. We're working on the leasing agreement with them.
Eric Souza: We're taking care of all of that. We're just providing these artists the opportunity to come into this space and produce beautiful work for the communities we serve. And we've been able to come up with a full schedule. So there's a year of programmed activity going on in that space right now and that actually starts at the end of this month.
Eric Souza: So we'll have three artists in there at the end of this month, and then each month it goes through, there's like a theme, but think anything from visual artist to performing artist. We have a young lady who had, go ahead.
Tim Souza: So sorry. That space is designed then for those artists to work out of. They're gonna be, it, it's kind of like an incubator of sorts for
Eric Souza: Yep. Absolutely.
Tim Souza: And specifically art that'll be commissioned by it, [00:47:00] some agency in, in Baltimore, like it's kind of, it designed for them to create art for the city of Baltimore, whether that be Midtown, whether that be you. I'm assuming other organizations locally can tap that resource. We want this.
Eric Souza: We make curators there. I mean, there was an opportunity, a young lady whose grandmother had a dance studio on the west side of Baltimore and it ended up closing, but she grew up dancing and then ended up going to New York to go to school and then she, I mean, she was out in Vegas as a dancer.
Eric Souza: She's a professional dancer and now she came back to Baltimore and she wanted to reopen a dance studio. She's having trouble finding space. We're able to give her the space so we're able to help support this like, you know, small business. Small minority business opportunity where she wants to open up a dance studio.
Eric Souza: So,
Tim Souza: So it sounds to me like you guys are doing more than just kind of putting a cork in the creative brain drain. You're also being a magnet for this opportunity to come back into Baltimore. Yeah. And kind of for being a place for creators to grow, and artists to grow within the space, which I [00:48:00] think is, is really brilliant and I think is, is also kind of speaks heavily to the work that you guys have been doing as far as identifying.
Tim Souza: What key infrastructure can we, can we, clean up like the bridge that is a statement piece saying to the community, we are going to physically be using this art and this bridge to bridge these communities, and now we're inviting you over the bridge to participate in this space and join us in this effort to make our city creative and a fun place to be an artist.
Tim Souza: Yes. Catching that all properly.
Eric Souza: Yes. Absolutely. But it's, it's, it's allowing assets to support assets. Right. And like,
Tim Souza: I love that asset based mentality versus a lack based mentality, right? Yeah. Which we typically, we, we can see in cities across the states that, say, oh man, we don't have X, Y, or Z, but it sounds like in Baltimore you're like, no, but we do have HG and f.
Tim Souza: Let's just put 'em together and, and see what we can do with it. And it sounds like you guys are building an amazing solution, kind of [00:49:00] out of that space. So I think as I, you know, as we wrap our kind of conversation up, and I know that there's. There's a lot that we've, we've covered. Here, are there any other projects that you wanted to kinda speak to, as we, as we move towards closing out here?
Tim Souza: I know specifically there was one with, your greenway wall or your greenery wall, that I found fascinating as a part of the process of what you learned. And I think it really speaks to how you, how you guys are taking this, I'm gonna, I use startup language. So this, this incubator model of like, we're gonna test and we're gonna iterate and we're gonna learn from our community, yeah.
Tim Souza: As we build these solutions. And I think that'd be a great way to close out this conversation, if you don't mind.
Eric Souza: Yeah, sure. So, no, I mean, non-profit work, right? Like what gets projects started is, is a lot of times specifically operationally and, mm-hmm. I mentioned before we're an operationally based group as well.
Eric Souza: You have to come up with creative solutions to abate challenges for, in this example, like graffiti. [00:50:00] So we, you know. I am a big fan of trying to figure out how to get multiple high fives around the table, not just the one high five that's being sought after. Right. It's like being inclusive of all kinds of needs.
Eric Souza: Mm-hmm. We have a heat island effect. There's a ton of concrete in cities and we know the ways that we can abate some of that. Right. So it's providing planting opportunities, providing perennial native growth opportunities. And along the specific bridge that we were talking about was the St. Paul Bridge, and we had just experienced a tremendous challenge with a lot of the graffiti that was hitting it.
Eric Souza: Unfortunately, right As people step off at the Penn Station, train station, and they hop in a vehicle or in a, you know, on a bike or whatever to go southbound to get down into the city, they have to go over this bridge. And as you go over this bridge, one of the first things you're introduced to in Baltimore is just tons of tagging.
Eric Souza: You know, swatches of paint and then tagging again. So understanding that we had a challenge with the heat island effect. We tried to get creative with our [00:51:00] approach, and what we did is, we purchased a ton of planters, we got grant funding to do this, and purchased a ton of planters and plants. A lot of like perennial and native plantings in these planter boxes, maintenance contracts were established so we could ensure that they were watered properly.
Eric Souza: Nice. But there was a lattice that was put up along the bridge surface, so these plants had the opportunity to grow and kind of cover, almost like an ivy concept, but not ivy. Mm-hmm. There's all kinds of other plants that we used. And you know, over the course of about six months to seven months, we see all that take off a little bit.
Eric Souza: We grabbed a little bit more grant money and added a little bit extra to it. And what we noticed. Not only were we able to achieve this really beautiful, natural green wall structure, but all of the graffiti disappeared. And the reason that we added those extra planners that I spoke to on the second go round of grant funding was when we established the first one, what we noticed was, it wasn't just where the plants were growing that the graffiti disappeared, but it was the extra little section of fence next to it.
Eric Souza: No one graffitied [00:52:00] that, but then the section next to that one actually got graffiti. So the idea was, is, is. Well, if there's this two for one ratio that we're getting here, then let's just fill in that second or that third area and the idea will expand. And like sure enough, we put these additional plantings in.
Eric Souza: We got tons of, you know, comments about how beautiful it was and the greenery and when they blossomed and the flowers. And the big thing was not only did we provide beauty to the area and we provided all this heat island effect, like reduction opportunities, and we had all the data to back that up so we could write for the next grant.
Eric Souza: But we abated the graffiti. So it was just like a win-win all around. You traverse across the bridge, you've got natural beauty, you've got less of a heat eye effect, so it's better for the environment and we're getting ready to graffiti. So I think it just really is a strong testament to why it's important to be creative with our thoughts, you know?
Eric Souza: Mm-hmm. At first glance, you could just go out and buy graffiti removal and some rags and spray that stuff on the fence and wipe the graffiti off. Right? Right. But like, there's ways that we can introduce beauty [00:53:00] and. Get creative with the way that we approach some of the challenges that we experience in cities, that allow us to experience more than just the benefit maybe that we're looking for, right?
Eric Souza: But I think that we have to be intentful with the way that we approach it and just be open-minded, and understand that the world is completely gray, pink, blue, purple and green, and not black and white. And I think, you know, city officials. Management authority leaders, like we collectively, need to commit to being creative and problem solvers because there's a lot more than just the itch that we're trying to itch that needs to be taken care of many times.
Eric Souza: And as our budgets get reduced and we have all these challenges, like there's multiple ways that we can come up with creative solutions that provide tons of benefit, we just have to be willing to think creatively about it and kind of step outside the box a little bit.
Tim Souza: and that is something that Baltimore, in my opinion, does really, really well, I think is just, you know, coming through you leveraging those creative [00:54:00] solutions. So I think there, to close this out, where do you hope to see Baltimore in like five years?
Tim Souza: So it, you, you, this is the vision. This is where you've been, this is what, you know, we've been, you're moving towards what you're currently doing, but like in a trajectory of five years, if we were to say, this is Eric Souza Baltimore. Right? In that universe, what could we expect out of, like even just midtown?
Eric Souza: Yeah. So I, you know, I think first and foremost, we are on a really solid trajectory with the leadership that we have in place. To be able to experience a lot of amazing things as we like, move through that five-year time period that you just described. I think the Baltimore that we are going to see is one that has extreme inclusiveness.
Eric Souza: And what I mean by that is, we are a very accepting city and I think that it's starting to get like, kind of like nationally recognized. And I think that the location, that we are a proud participant [00:55:00] in, gives us access to a lot of other key cities. So what I would love for Baltimore to be in five years is a spot that not only people wanna stop and visit, but people wanna like, move to and participate in a communal approach.
Eric Souza: I think that access is starting to be provided, and I think that there is an understanding of how important arts and culture are, for the entire community. That's all of Baltimore. We're starting to see that through the creation of the Mayor's Office of Arts and Culture of a dynamic later in there, you know, Tonya Miller Hall.
Eric Souza: And I think that the ability for us, to be able to get the right leadership in place is gonna really create this inclusiveness. Creative economy, which is really, in my opinion, where that, that's where our niche is, is in that space. We're not a city of 5 million. We're [00:56:00] not a city of 200,000.
Eric Souza: We're kind of right in this like little slight sweet spot to where we live, between the 600,000 in a million range, depending on what years you were looking in. And I really see us being able in five years to grab more residents. Because of the ability for us to open up creatively and inclusiveness, kind of being centered in that, it's gonna be a desirable place for people to want to come and not just, like I said, visit, but move to, and that's my hope.
Eric Souza: I've seen the city when it had a lot more residents in it. I've seen the city when we were up around 900,000. And there's definitely a difference in Baltimore. We're down at around 580,000 right now.
Eric Souza: And I think there, that's a, that's a lot of loss and, and, you know, the better half of the last two decades, and I think that we're, we're on the right trajectory to, to get that turned around.
Eric Souza: So in five years we'll see more art, [00:57:00] and, and we'll also, we'll see more residents walking around in the streets.
Tim Souza: Well, I can't wait to visit Baltimore. I want to do it next year. And then of course in the next, in five years to see that vision come to reality. Eric, this is awesome.
Eric Souza: Awesome.
Tim Souza: Well thank you so very much. We're welcome. Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so very much. It's good to know that another Souza’s out there doing some good work, on the other side of the country. Absolutely. Yes. Thank you for joining us today and.
Eric Souza: Thanks so much for having me.
Tim Souza: Yeah, absolutely.
Tim Souza: And I can't wait to share this story with all of our listeners. Great. Thanks so much, Tim. No problem. See you.
Emily Craven: Another fun interview I missed in the virtual flesh.
Tim Souza: It's okay.
Tim Souza: You know what? I think it makes it more fun because then I get to bring it to you for critique. So, hey, look what we chatted about. You're the expert. Placemaker. Let's see what happens.
Emily Craven: I like Eric. [00:58:00] I dunno how I, if I wanna, if I wanna critique him.
Emily Craven: No, of course I do. I love you, Eric. But we all, we, we, we all play in this game of. Of public space making. There's always room for improvement. That's what I think I love about the placemaking people in general, right? Lots of experimentation, lots of room for improvement. The good ones like, we'll systematize things that are working, but still leave room for experimentation.
Emily Craven: Kind of like a tech startup. Right. Which, which it, this, this, this management authority feels more tech startup-y than a big does.
Tim Souza: It definitely feels more incubator, accelerator, right? Like we are, we want to take this, we wanna incubate, we wanna pay people, well, we want them to like, we wanna invest in these artists and build up the next round of artists, the next generation of like, what that means.
Tim Souza: And so it's like, yeah. And in that way.
Emily Craven: Yeah, it's kind of an impactful community league, right? Community leagues are all volunteer based, collect based on fundraising, but this is obviously like a step above. You are [00:59:00] involving the community, not just businesses. It is legislated in that, you know, this money comes out as a tax on property taxes.
Emily Craven: Like it's smart. Bake it in so that money can't be ripped away by random, you know, mayor changes, you know, president changes, whatever that is. Right? And so it's, it's, it's. And as long as you are faithfully engaging in the community like Eric is, you get some really interesting and wonderful results.
Emily Craven: Right. And so I loved, I loved how he talked about, you know, the soft infrastructure, like things like benches and pop-up events and ambassadors. So like that's people. That's events. And that's like movable furniture. He treats them as infrastructure. They're not just program fluff. They are essential to making a thing run.
Emily Craven: And that is a very valuable mindset shift, right? You can't just build the infrastructure and they will come. You have to make sure that the infrastructure is inviting and that's not the purpose of a civil engineer. They're there to make sure that that bridge [01:00:00] does not collect. But it is where management authorities can really pick up in a way that bids cannot because it's really hard to make a case to a business like, oh yes, if we pretty this thing, it will help.
Emily Craven: But like,
Tim Souza: Well, and I think bids are directly, yeah, they're directly looking at driving income increases for their participating businesses. They can't
Emily Craven: guarantee an income increase,
Tim Souza: Right. But the management authority really gets to take a step back and look at how partnerships can be built that may have more long-term benefits, but not that.
Tim Souza: In that fiscal year show revenue increase to those local businesses. Yeah. They're, they're looking at like, how do we make them more accessible, make them more engaging, bringing new demographics into that space in a way that the bid is hyper-focused on.
Emily Craven: But I think the thing that really impressed [01:01:00] me about Eric was that it goes beyond amenities.
Emily Craven: Right, because those are, those are amenities, you know, the occasional event, like all of those kinds of things. But he's, he's literally using infrastructure to tell stories and it's stories that change perception. And that's what we've spoken to Baltimore about a bunch, right? They talk about how their stories change, the perception of downtown, the events that are positive help to change the perception of downtown.
Emily Craven: We're gonna hear about that in Vancouver next week as well. Events changing, perceptions of downtown and of safety, right? And so from. The design of, you know, shelters to highway passes, like everything is a medium for a narrative and a memory, and so that, that you want that to be visually available, but then there are things that you can't do in visual.
Emily Craven: That, that again, that, that you need an extra layer. And you guys hear me harp about this all the time. Having like that digital layer that allows for that multi communication of being able to hear voices as well as see the faces that are within those murals or, you know, the designs within [01:02:00] those murals to hear rationales behind things, to, to be introduced to the why of a project, to be introduced to the stories of residents, to be introduced to, you know, faces, which are a step up from audio.
Emily Craven: Like all of that. Can help, feel a place when you can't have an ambassador there 24 7.
Tim Souza: Well, and what you're really talking about is treating place as character development, right? Like if I was to take a look back at what we do with, sorry, city, we look at like when you're telling the story that each location is a character, you're meeting that character the first time.
Tim Souza: You step into that location and I think that like them. Definitely do a great job, but it's more that that character has a role to play in the story. And I think that that's what makes Eric's approach very, very fascinating is that it is not that culture is that afterthought, that character, that location's role is [01:03:00] that the character's role is to be the primary vehicle.
Tim Souza: Right of making that space feel safe for the story to make sense and that he's using culture to make that happen. He's not using it, like we're bringing in a business and we're gonna put a little taco stand here to make that happen. And then we're gonna drive like people into space and make it feel safe because of the.
Tim Souza: You know, there's business there he is. We're putting in a light installation. We're putting, we're spending a hundred thousand dollars on painting this bridge to tell the story of bridging these disparate communities. Each of these locations has a character, has a background, has a role that it plays for the community to engage with it, but also that it plays in the, in the function of the city.
Emily Craven: I think I pushed back a little bit on this, in that, like, that highway had been there for a while, right? Like, like Eric. Eric, Eric mentioned that like that highway has been there for like multiple decades, and so like as a part of that redlining, it really separated those communities. Right. Like it really, it was that [01:04:00] barrier.
Emily Craven: And, even in like, like Dallas talks about that, those barriers existing, their entire city center is surrounded by the highways and that is difficult for them to address. Same with Sacramento. They had this massive highway that goes through Sacramento that is difficult for them to bridge a historic district with the downtown.
Emily Craven: Right. And so it's, it's been there. I think that the, so the reason that I'm, I'm bringing this up is because. I think that there is no excuse these days to go into an infrastructure progress, into, into an infrastructure process and not think to yourself, what am I doing with this infrastructure once it is built?
Emily Craven: Are there opportunities for me to make sure that it does not separate communities, but is an invite to pass through them or to be a connector? Right? Between that northwest into downtown.
Tim Souza: Right. I would say that that's, that's looking at the highway and saying like, it's a character in your city. How is it interacting with all of the other characters in [01:05:00] the city?
Tim Souza: And if, if that is community, if that's culture. Because what they've done is they looked at it and they were like, Hey, like what is the population that takes that multimodal transportation? Right. How is this highway interacting with the transportation of people getting to their jobs, getting to their groceries, getting home?
Tim Souza: How are we, like, how can we change the role of this character in the city to embrace scooters and bicycles and, and walking alongside bus transportation and, and vehicles that obviously must all exist within that same space? And so I think that it's really just taking that. A tweak on that, that lens.
Tim Souza: 'cause you're right. 'cause when they built it, he mentions that it was built as like a massive infrastructure project that everyone celebrated because our engineers were capable of it. Yeah. Just because they were capable of it then doesn't mean it's useful now. So like Tampa as an example, because of the work that they've been doing there, they pull, they're pulling up highways that cut black communities in half.
Tim Souza: They're pulling up highways that went over graveyards. Right. And so like, when [01:06:00] that is a, we were gonna remove this amazing infrastructure that the previous generations thought was necessary because this character no longer fits in this story. This is, the story has changed. And I think that that is the lens that I would bring into this, is that I think that's why I love what Eric has been doing.
Tim Souza: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's, it's real looking and be like, okay, we, we can't remove it, but maybe we can give it a new role.
Emily Craven: And I think maybe my major takeaway for, for other cities in this is that. If you were building massive infrastructure, what is the activation plan afterwards? Because any massive infrastructure that you build is gonna split something as much as it connects something.
Emily Craven: It's gonna connect one thing to another thing, but it's gonna split something else from something else. And so how are you thinking about the activation of that space, the maintenance? As we talked about in the previous episode with Tulsa, the maintenance of that space. Mm-hmm. And how are you, how are you thinking about how you can then use it as a connector so that it does not cause the separation of those communities and it is inviting for people to use it.
Emily Craven: And even now, [01:07:00] Like the underlying in, in Miami and Florida, how they're using that and they're rewilding it and they're putting butterfly gardens in and, and, and. Equipment and bike paths, and that is now becoming a thoroughfare for people. That is pleasant. Right? And so I think that, if you take away anything from this, it's that infrastructure can be the connector in its, purpose, but it can also be the connector,
Emily Craven: In a bunch of additional ways that do not go into the main purpose for why it was built.
Tim Souza: Right. Well, and I think that, you know what you're saying, that infrastructure is the background piece that holds up everything that you program on top of it. Right. And I think that part of that, one of the things, part of the piece that we love about Baltimore [01:08:00] and that incubator space is what they're doing for artists to grow and scale artists.
Tim Souza: I was really curious about your perspectives on like the efforts that were being made to,
Emily Craven: I really like the removal of red tape for artists. It is amazing. Like it's the remo like to clear out that bureaucratic. Friction and like we will meet this when we go to West Palm Beach at the end of this season.
Emily Craven: But like removing bureaucratic friction for artists so that they can, you know, whether it's rerunning permit processes, whether it is, making an application easier so that someone doesn't have to spend hours on it when they need to go to their second job, right? Like all of those things allow you to build.
Emily Craven: In more voices so that the community feels more heard and that they buy more into spaces. Right. It's not about, you know, like the, the, the language of, equity, diversity, and inclusion has kind of [01:09:00] been ripped out of things. But the, but the part of it remains that the more people that you can tell stories of, the more communities that feel invested in a space and will help keep it clean and will help activate it and, and all of those things, right?
Emily Craven: And so the more people who feel ownership, the better. And you know, and then you get things like Tulsa where people will actually funnel money back into their city, right? So I, I think, so I think that that's one of the most powerful things is, is that systemic change in. It, and it's not just a meeting to hear everybody's opinions, you know?
Tim Souza: Right. Like, yeah, you're right. It's not just like a Leslie Open Parks and Rec sitting and being like, Hey, like, we're here to have everyone shout at us for 30 minutes or an hour. So what I find fascinating is that you were an amazing grant writer. Right. You're also an amazing creator. Not everybody has the ability to, tell that story and [01:10:00] Grant right. And I think that those skill sets may be cross over a little bit, but visual artists who are experts at creating beautification in a space or making a space feel safe, that doesn't mean that they're experts in getting the grants and filing the paperwork and doing all those pieces.
Tim Souza: So what, you know, the Midtown team has really done is. Open that door to be, like you were saying, people don't like the word accessible alongside the words DEI, diversity equity, inclusion now. And I think that, and part of that is that not everybody's an expert in all things. Right. Not like artists aren't always the greatest business people, but to have that backing really allows them to go and flourish and do what they do best and partner for the parts where they're weaker.
Tim Souza: And I think that that really sets Baltimore up for long-term success when you do that.
Emily Craven: Yeah, and I do, I do worry a little bit about what happens when the grant money runs out, because obviously. Like a beard. They're collecting all of these like small levies from community and, and business and, and that goes mainly [01:11:00] into maintenance delivery of services, those sorts of things.
Emily Craven: So like the mural that Eric did required grants, right? And so a whole bunch of his job is going out, getting that grant funding. And these activations are really powerful. And then the events that happen in them are powerful. But like what happens when the grant money runs out? So. You, you kind of just get on that repetitive cycle.
Emily Craven: And, and so I think that one way we've seen the scaffolding being built for sustainability is like using platforms like Story City or whichever to, to let those pop up moments live on, right? Mm-hmm. So you have mm-hmm. The visual, if you can let those popups live on through location-based storytelling, through Evergreen public engagement, whenever you're getting a grant, you should always think of the, what are the additional things that I'm leaving behind?
Emily Craven: And beautification is just [01:12:00] one of them, and events is just one of them. And then sending people out on an ambassador program to go touring and talk about Tulsa is one of them. And you just wanna make sure that with each grant that you're getting, that you're hitting. Either if, if you're only getting small amounts hitting at least one of a new one each time you do it, or, or trying to hit multiples of those, right?
Emily Craven: Where yes, you have a thing that's put on, we all need events that are vital, but at the same time, like what is sustainability? What is the sustainability? And I think that that's what I am excited to get into with the next episode, which we're gonna, our first Canadian city of this. Podcast, we're going to Vancouver, the lovely, delightful Vancouver to, to the biggest bid in Western Canada, 90 city blocks, right?
Emily Craven: Mm-hmm.
Tim Souza: And I, so I would say for our American audience, Vancouver is gonna be above Seattle, unlike Toronto, which would be [01:13:00] above New York. Yeah, location wise, so,
Emily Craven: And Australia is really far south from on the other side of the world.
Tim Souza: There's in between for that one. And I think that, with the 90 city blocks, how they're programming what they're doing to address social issues, what they're doing to address infrastructure issues. Right. All very fascinating as an approach. So I'm super excited about Yeah. And taking our audience up into the western con westernmost Canadian city.
Emily Craven: Yeah, exactly. And you know, it's worth noting that in this episode, this management authority was happening within a business improvement district.
Tim Souza: Mm.
Emily Craven: Right. So they kind of have this kind of level of autonomy and resourcing that some cities don't. Have, and you'll see that contrast in Vancouver where the bid is like, as we said, one of the largest ones. They're quite well funded, but they still too have those trade offs, right? So Baltimore, you know, there's this trade [01:14:00] off of needing kind of deeper partnerships to be able to make things happen across.
Emily Craven: Those areas, and it's, it's similar in, in Vancouver. They need those kinds of deeper kinds of partnerships. But I think that it's interesting to note that management authorities and bids can work and crossover together, and it might be worth having both, particularly when you're looking at very massive areas like what Vancouver has next week.
Emily Craven: And, and then we'll really, we'll really dive in hard into events next week, because events have been used as the main place making tool in Vancouver for a very long time. And so you'll hear Tim and I really hammer into like what is the, what is the long-term vibrancy? That can happen within a city and, and Claire Warner, Who we'll be speaking to in the next episode really helps us unpack that.
Tim Souza: Yeah, absolutely. And I think one of the things that I'm learning from all of these conversations is that every city is vastly different. They're addressing [01:15:00] similar but rather unique problems. Right? Because they were all founded and, and built and exist within different socioeconomic and political and cultural histories.
Tim Souza: But like if I was to start a city from the ground up, I think that there are so many systems that would need to be in place and I'm really excited about this season 'cause we're really talking about those systems and really challenging those systems to build our communities better and provide our audience and our listeners with.
Tim Souza: Tool sets and things to think about that they may not have considered as far as how those systems are utilized. So, really grateful that you all joined us today with this episode, with Eric Souza, and that you are sticking with us next week as we jump the border into Canada to address what it's like when a bid has, again, 90 city blocks.
Tim Souza: Businesses, people, basically all of the downtown as a part of how it's placemaking. So thank you so much for joining us and I can't wait to hear and see you next week.
Emily Craven: Yeah, go out and [01:16:00] have an adventure. We'll see you soon. Yeah.
Tim Souza: Cheers, friends.
